Very Difficult decision..Canceling my Sig X reservation

[CarlK]

I can't be only reservation holder (production mid 600's) who loves the pedestal second row seats, especially with 6 seating configuration. Waiting for configuration so it can share HPWC in garage with Sig MS. But am sorry to hear of cancellations because of a possible feature that is of no importance to other customers like me. Hopefully in future Tesla will add option of folding second row seats for even more cargo space. But am a little surprised at idea of using quite expensive world class vehicle for hauling furniture and wood planks etc, that is main use of my far cheaper Chevy Colorado mid size pickup truck. And before got pickup truck would rent inexpensive pick up from U Haul for few hours or day when needed to do serious around town hauling, better than risking interior damage to expensive luxury vehicle. And of course U Haul also has trailers for hauling large stuff which could easily be pulled by tow bar on MX. Cheers.

No you're not. Most of us just have nothing to complain about. Even that this is called utility vehicle most people still use it to haul people instead of to haul huge stuff. Not to mention the current configuration still allows people to haul huge stuff except perhaps super huge stuff which I likely would never do with this car anyway. Yes I do like the pedestal second row seats which will be in the up position 99.999% of time even if it can be folded flat.

 

[EchoDelta]

I can not wait to see ours with a 40' glider trailer behind it

Nice image!

 

[AnOutsider]

Al and Nigel, I commend you for taking the step. We've been teetering for a while now, and the reveal, which we hoped would answer some questions and reignite the desire, failed to make the decision easier. At this point, we're definitely going to try to defer, but a full cancellation is not far behind.

 

[bonnie]

Al, Nigel, and others - I know what a tough decision this has been. And I know (from some personal discussions) how many things you considered along the 'how do I make this work' line of thinking. You're not really letting go , you're only delaying until it's the right vehicle for you and your needs.

 

[llavalle]

So, I called and canceled my reservation.

FYI, when I cancelled my X reservation earlier this year (after buying my 85D), it tooks 3months+ to get my money back. And when I got it, it was a handwritten cheque (AKA check in the US).

Not sure what your financial situation is but I was expecting this to avoid pulling money out of something else and it took longer than expected.

 

[jerjozwik]

just out of curiosity, do they ask why you are canceling when you cancel your reservation or is it just a "hello my name is X and i want to cancel my reservation" *click*

 

[efusco]

I am not quite sure why the decision is difficult. The next year or two will probably yield additional improvements to Model X, including different seat configurations. The next couple of years will also yield a more well built out supercharger network and maybe even some competition from traditional ICE makers in the of BEV or PHEV SUVs. I know that I am considering the Volvo XC90 PHEV and the BMW X5 PHEV along with Model X in about a 12-18 month horizon, but I don't want to be among the first to have any of these.

I know better than to ever say never with Tesla, but I think this is like the Model S door handle thing...it's the design they chose and they have their reasons and it's elegant and they're not going to change or add folding 2nd row seats. Maybe eliminating the 3rd row will be possible someday, but I bet that second row doesn't change. Likewise the Falcon Wing doors.

 

[MrBoylan]

The current cubical space in the Highlander allows us to add quite a bit of cargo with the kids in the 2nd row. I get a sense that there's no way I'm going to get as much 'stuff' in the X, even with the well and Frunk.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by how much you can fit in the Model X with the 3rd row folded down and second row full of passengers. We're also upgrading from a 2006 Highlander Hybrid. From what I saw at the reveal event, the storage space behind the second row of seats seemed larger than in the Highlander as it goes much deeper. I should have brought a tape measure to the event but didn't think of it. I've seen that others measured the space with the 2nd row in place for seating and there was 50 inches from back hatch to back of 2nd row (60 inches if you slide the 2nd row all the way forward with no one sitting in it). The rear and middle seats were definitely more spacious and comfortable than those in the Highlander. I don't think the Model X second row reclines at all though, as the seats are one-piece (no hinge to recline or fold). At least it appeared that way and I didn't see any button to recline the seats. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Hopefully you'll be able to see a Model X at a showroom before you commit, but after going to the reveal event, I'm a fully on-board with the Model X.

 

[NigelM]

Just to answer a few questions:

• Our horse trailer weighs in >2,000lbs, even with both horses loaded Model X would have pulled it. (Note to everyone: think about wheel size and tire choice if you're going up to 5,000lbs)
• I also have a flatbed utility trailer but the car can only pull one trailer at a time.
• Yes, we haul all sorts of horse gear (and dogs) around in our Model S all the time. The car is well looked after but it gets utilized.
• We use the space every week, this isn't a 'new TV once a year thing'; having to hook up a trailer all the time is going to get tired very quickly.
• Our ideal was that the X would replace both our Model S and pick-up truck. If it's not going to do that successfully then, well, there's our decision point.
• Yes, Tesla asks the reason for cancelation; I gave feedback.

Our circumstances are different to many others and Model X comes really close to fulfilling our needs. It looks fantastic and I congratulate all those getting it. Meanwhile, the anticipation begins again hoping for a car that can do everything we need. :smile:

 

[TSLAopt]

I think Tesla knew exactly what they were doing by changing the 2nd row seats to not be folding down seats and instead be more functional for soccer moms.

Tesla has turned this car into the ULTIMATE SOCCER MOM SUV. I have observed many people express disappointment about the 2nd row seats not folding down...it is a fair disappointment as at the Model X reveal the 2nd row seats folded down then. However, I have not observed any soccer moms' disappointment of the car. I have a few young kids that my wife is psyched to have this SUV to use, the friends I have with young kids also are psyched to get this SUV...
+To soccer moms, the X is Utility to extreme
-To men(and women) wanting to carry big things around a lot the X is not,

Two different audiences and it is very difficult to be everything to both audiences, Tesla decided to focus on women for this X which I agree with as being the right strategic thing for them to do.

My point is, for every forum member on here who's justifiably disappointed and cancelling their X reservation, there are 10 new soccer moms who are learning about the X for the first time from the news or friends and starting to make plans to reserve an X for their next car.

 

[efusco]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by how much you can fit in the Model X with the 3rd row folded down and second row full of passengers. We're also upgrading from a 2006 Highlander Hybrid. From what I saw at the reveal event, the storage space behind the second row of seats seemed larger than in the Highlander as it goes much deeper. I should have brought a tape measure to the event but didn't think of it. I've seen that others measured the space with the 2nd row in place for seating and there was 50 inches from back hatch to back of 2nd row (60 inches if you slide the 2nd row all the way forward with no one sitting in it). The rear and middle seats were definitely more spacious and comfortable than those in the Highlander. I don't think the Model X second row reclines at all though, as the seats are one-piece (no hinge to recline or fold). At least it appeared that way and I didn't see any button to recline the seats. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Hopefully you'll be able to see a Model X at a showroom before you commit, but after going to the reveal event, I'm a fully on-board with the Model X.

Thank you! That's reassuring. I hoped that the "well space" would make up for what the ceiling height lacked. Throw in the Frunk space and we may be OK with the skis on the accessory rack.

 

[taurusking]

Just to answer a few questions:

• Our horse trailer weighs in >2,000lbs, even with both horses loaded Model X would have pulled it. (Note to everyone: think about wheel size and tire choice if you're going up to 5,000lbs)
• I also have a flatbed utility trailer but the car can only pull one trailer at a time.
• Yes, we haul all sorts of horse gear (and dogs) around in our Model S all the time. The car is well looked after but it gets utilized.
• We use the space every week, this isn't a 'new TV once a year thing'; having to hook up a trailer all the time is going to get tired very quickly.
• Our ideal was that the X would replace both our Model S and pick-up truck. If it's not going to do that successfully then, well, there's our decision point.
• Yes, Tesla asks the reason for cancelation; I gave feedback.

Our circumstances are different to many others and Model X comes really close to fulfilling our needs. It looks fantastic and I congratulate all those getting it. Meanwhile, the anticipation begins again hoping for a car that can do everything we need. :smile:

Sorry that you had to cancel reservation....While I don't have any trailer needs but I do need space more like SUV..

Thanks for the neat explanation

 

[efusco]

Just to answer a few questions:

• Our horse trailer weighs in >2,000lbs, even with both horses loaded Model X would have pulled it. (Note to everyone: think about wheel size and tire choice if you're going up to 5,000lbs)
• I also have a flatbed utility trailer but the car can only pull one trailer at a time.
• Yes, we haul all sorts of horse gear (and dogs) around in our Model S all the time. The car is well looked after but it gets utilized.
• We use the space every week, this isn't a 'new TV once a year thing'; having to hook up a trailer all the time is going to get tired very quickly.
• Our ideal was that the X would replace both our Model S and pick-up truck. If it's not going to do that successfully then, well, there's our decision point.
• Yes, Tesla asks the reason for cancelation; I gave feedback.

Our circumstances are different to many others and Model X comes really close to fulfilling our needs. It looks fantastic and I congratulate all those getting it. Meanwhile, the anticipation begins again hoping for a car that can do everything we need. :smile:

Roger that, too bad man. Just wanted to be sure it wasn't one of those "it's not what I expected" reactionary decisions.

 

[ecarfan]

Also, there is certainly a large storage "well" below the trunk floor, possibly even deeper than in the Model S, and of course there is the frunk. Those two storage areas are not available in a Highlander or any ICE.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by how much you can fit in the Model X with the 3rd row folded down and second row full of passengers. We're also upgrading from a 2006 Highlander Hybrid. From what I saw at the reveal event, the storage space behind the second row of seats seemed larger than in the Highlander as it goes much deeper. I should have brought a tape measure to the event but didn't think of it. I've seen that others measured the space with the 2nd row in place for seating and there was 50 inches from back hatch to back of 2nd row (60 inches if you slide the 2nd row all the way forward with no one sitting in it). The rear and middle seats were definitely more spacious and comfortable than those in the Highlander. I don't think the Model X second row reclines at all though, as the seats are one-piece (no hinge to recline or fold). At least it appeared that way and I didn't see any button to recline the seats. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Hopefully you'll be able to see a Model X at a showroom before you commit, but after going to the reveal event, I'm a fully on-board with the Model X.

 

[kf93]

I've made and cancelled a regular X reservation twice, had the money refunded to my credit card within a few weeks in both cases. I also made a third reservation that I haven't cancelled yet, am waiting to actually sit in one and see if it works for our family. We have a 2015 GL350 that fits all the long distance gear hauling needs and was bought after the first reservation cancel when we needed something sooner than sometime in 2016. I was also looking hard at the XC90 T8, and had it been available in April probably would be in the garage instead of the GL350. I can see where people who wanted more utility such as a roof rack, higher towing capacity, folding seats, etc are disappointing. The X is more minivan than SUV. Car seats drove the second row seat configuration IMO and the falcon wing doors caused the engineering problem to mount the seatbelts on the seats so they can't be removed easily. If I had $40k tied up I probably would drop it also, I'm willing to wait until later in the hope that they eventually bring out a folding second row seat and a 70 or 80 battery before they hit my reservation number.

 

[tonyinc]

Speaking as an engineer, there are always trade offs to be made. You may recall Elon/Tesla speaking about Model S in its early stages and they made a conscious decision to make it a practical performance car vs a track car. (Although interestingly plenty people are obsessed with the car on track performance). We are now understanding a bit about what decision was made for the X. It was to be a "Soccer Mom/Dad" light utility vehicle. The seats are not for hauling 24' lumber rather your kids car seats. The whole falcon door is around lifting kids in and out of the back rows. Perhaps Take it to your local ski slope or mountain bike resort. Have a commanding view of the road yet be an EV. A car can't be everything to everybody. With this clarificatiOn we now see buyers who thought they we're getting rugged SUV / pick truck move on. Nothing earth shattering. On the flip side lots of other light utility users are stepping up. It's perhaps disenginous to say Tesla made a bad choice. They simply made a choice. Sorry it didn't make a die hard fan happy. Hopefully this brings on new new die hards. Cheers.

As an avid Tesla supporter, I am disappointed at all the responses to the lack of cargo capacity as "well it's not for hauling lumber".

The current configuration is a MUCH BIGGER MISS than not being able to haul 24' lumber.

With the second row all the way forward, you only have 60". This excludes much more than large hauling jobs. It also excludes floor lamps, long rakes, a single high-back dining room chair...etc. That is even much less than a compact hatchback car.

I would suggest that people who really want folding seats (and can wait on Tesla time) do so because I guarantee as people realize how limiting the current config is, they will sell very few 7 seat versions. I predict the 6 seater will be by far the most popular, at least you could fit some of the items above.

How embarrassed would you be if you had to call a friend with a Civic hatchback to help you bring home a floor lamp because it will not fit in your X?

My guess is they wanted folding seats (at least as an option) but they are so far behind schedule and had to go with what they had. What they basically made is a really really sweet people tram with less utility than a Mini Clubman. In the current configuration, calling it an SUV/CUV or even a Mini Van is ridiculous.

So disappointed after waiting years, could have upgraded my old SUV for something more efficient a long time ago.

X reservation 16,448

 

[Cottonwood]

I held off on making the call to cancel my X reservation until going to the X event.

After seeing the Sig Red, and listening to Elon, I almost decided to go configure my X.

Then I went to look at Elon's X. The good news was that it was a more reasonable size than I expected. I then looked at the inside and as others have shown (see Very Difficult decision..Canceling my Sig X reservation - S Cargo Capacity), the S can really hold more stuff. For me the real issue is loading bicycles. I know that I could use the hitch adapter, but I really like popping off the front wheel and putting a bike or two in the back of the S. I've done road trips with two adults, two road bike, two mountain bikes, and luggage, all inside the S. With a couple of moving blankets, the bikes ride in the protection of the car, don't get rained on or get road muck on them, and I don't lose any range from aerodynamic losses. With the way X is configured, I can't put bikes inside the car like I can with the S, or I could do with the Prius...

A secondary, but less important issue is the comfort of third row seats for a full size adult. I am large, but not huge at 183 cm (6') in height. Getting in the third row was possible, but when I sat in and the people in the second row put their seats in a normal, mid position, my legs were almost crushed until I spread them. If another person close to my size had been beside me, our knees would have been pushed together with uncomfortable force.

Unless anyone has a suggestion on how use my Sig#87 reservation (Is it possible to pass it on to another?), I will be making the cancel call and see how long it takes to get my check. My next Tesla will probably be an S100D when it comes out. :biggrin:

 

[JohnSnowNW]

I think Tesla knew exactly what they were doing by changing the 2nd row seats to not be folding down seats and instead be more functional for soccer moms.

Tesla has turned this car into the ULTIMATE SOCCER MOM SUV. I have observed many people express disappointment about the 2nd row seats not folding down...it is a fair disappointment as at the Model X reveal the 2nd row seats folded down then. However, I have not observed any soccer moms' disappointment of the car. I have a few young kids that my wife is psyched to have this SUV to use, the friends I have with young kids also are psyched to get this SUV...
+To soccer moms, the X is Utility to extreme
-To men(and women) wanting to carry big things around a lot the X is not,

Two different audiences and it is very difficult to be everything to both audiences, Tesla decided to focus on women for this X which I agree with as being the right strategic thing for them to do.

My point is, for every forum member on here who's justifiably disappointed and cancelling their X reservation, there are 10 new soccer moms who are learning about the X for the first time from the news or friends and starting to make plans to reserve an X for their next car.

Well, my wife nor I would be considered "soccer mom/dad's" and the lack of folding is completely unnecessary for us. I can count on one hand the number of times we've folded the seats down on our vehicles over the last 5 years. And that was only because I'm currently driving a Suzuki SX4 (not much trunk space). I think the demographic is much wider than "soccer mom's" and that people who absolutely "need" folding seats are a very small minority. To be honest, the argument for folding seats being necessary reminds me of the argument people make for 100 mile EVs...in that people generally over-estimate their range requirements.

I honestly can't fathom the need for more room than you get with the current configuration, but that hardly means people don't absolutely need it. Tesla would do well to offer the option in the future.

 

[tonyinc]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by how much you can fit in the Model X with the 3rd row folded down and second row full of passengers. We're also upgrading from a 2006 Highlander Hybrid. From what I saw at the reveal event, the storage space behind the second row of seats seemed larger than in the Highlander as it goes much deeper. I should have brought a tape measure to the event but didn't think of it. I've seen that others measured the space with the 2nd row in place for seating and there was 50 inches from back hatch to back of 2nd row (60 inches if you slide the 2nd row all the way forward with no one sitting in it). The rear and middle seats were definitely more spacious and comfortable than those in the Highlander. I don't think the Model X second row reclines at all though, as the seats are one-piece (no hinge to recline or fold). At least it appeared that way and I didn't see any button to recline the seats. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Hopefully you'll be able to see a Model X at a showroom before you commit, but after going to the reveal event, I'm a fully on-board with the Model X.

60" is nothing, and people are not upset at lack of cargo volume.
Can you imagine having to call a friend with his Honda Civic hatchback to come help you bring home a floor lamp or a rake because it will not fit in your X?

I guarantee most sales will be with the 6 seat version. With the 7 seat config, this vehicle is crippled compared to any SUV/CUV/Mini Van, and even almost every other car. If you really want folding seats, just wait (Tesla time) they will come, because Tesla will not sell many 7 seaters without it once people realize how short 50" is and how often they carry something that long.

I am keeping my reservation, because after so much waiting and forgoing upgrading my older SUV to something more efficient, I might as well.

 

[brucet999]

Oh, and here is one of my favorite Model S hauling pictures:

Do you get enough light through the rear window for this panel to charge the car?