What does "ignore" mean in 8.0?

[Sir Guacamolaf]

I had read that some people can just squeeze the wheel to make the warning go away. I've had mixed results with that. I'm not sure if squeezing the wheel really doesn't anything, or if you're just holding the wheel from rotating ever so slightly and autopilot is just sensing that.

Its TORQUE. Seriously, it's getting really boring to read about people come up with theories. It's nothing but torque.
When you squeeze the wheel, and get mixed results - guess what, they are involuntarily applying torque too.
There are NO Other sensors in the wheel except torque. You can take a FLIR camera in a heated steering wheel car, and pretty much see the insides. There are NO sensors on the steering wheel itself.

NOW, back to the original question of this thread,

If the screen says "hold steering", and I hold it and the warning goes away, does that constitute as 1 out 3 warnings before AP is disabled?

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

Its TORQUE. Seriously, it's getting really boring to read about people come up with theories. It's nothing but torque.
When you squeeze the wheel, and get mixed results - guess what, they are involuntarily applying torque too.
There are NO Other sensors in the wheel except torque. You can take a FLIR camera in a heated steering wheel car, and pretty much see the insides. There are NO sensors on the steering wheel itself.

NOW, back to the original question of this thread,

If the screen says "hold steering", and I hold it and the warning goes away, does that constitute as 1 out 3 warnings before AP is disabled?

<suspend_speculation>
I am surprised that no one has actually gone out and tested this "ignore" behavior. I would but have not received 8.0 yet. Someone, please try to activate the 3-strikes behavior and report back.
</suspend_speculation>

 

[Yuri_G]

Its TORQUE. Seriously, it's getting really boring to read about people come up with theories. It's nothing but torque.
When you squeeze the wheel, and get mixed results - guess what, they are involuntarily applying torque too.
There are NO Other sensors in the wheel except torque. You can take a FLIR camera in a heated steering wheel car, and pretty much see the insides. There are NO sensors on the steering wheel itself.

NOW, back to the original question of this thread,

If the screen says "hold steering", and I hold it and the warning goes away, does that constitute as 1 out 3 warnings before AP is disabled?

Just a common sense guess would be no, since that would mean you could only use Autopilot for 3 minutes without a car in front of you and 9 minutes when following a car. I'd imagine Tesla wants to get substantially more data from owners and that would also make everyone quite unhappy. Another question is if you miss one warning and hold the steering wheel on warning number two, does that count towards the three warnings?

 

[Sir Guacamolaf]

@Yuri_G - I would think so too. I think you'd literally have to IGNORE the hold steering warning, i.e. a tug would not count as a strike against you.

@GlmnAlyAirCar .. I intend to try it .. but haven't gotten the time to take a long drive. I have some driving ahead of me tomorrow, so will try then.

 

[brucet999]

This is the only one I have seen...seems to show the frequent warnings but not clear about if the 3 strikes rule is being triggered

Nice review. Thanks for posting.
Looks like you got two hands-on warnings, the second one escalating to add white flashing light surrounding the entire display. Have you allowed it to progress beyond that second warning yet?

It took me a while to realize that the yellow "meteorites" streaming in from time to time out of the right side of the display were reflections of sodium vapor street lights.

 

[u00mem9]

@Yuri_G - I would think so too. I think you'd literally have to IGNORE the hold steering warning, i.e. a tug would not count as a strike against you.

@GlmnAlyAirCar .. I intend to try it .. but haven't gotten the time to take a long drive. I have some driving ahead of me tomorrow, so will try then.

At this point, you are our only hope!

 

[Chopr147]

<suspend_speculation>
I am surprised that no one has actually gone out and tested this "ignore" behavior. I would but have not received 8.0 yet. Someone, please try to activate the 3-strikes behavior and report back.
</suspend_speculation>

First you need a nice long, mostly straight highway. W/O that I won't be doing it

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

First you need a nice long, mostly straight highway. W/O that I won't be doing it

When I get 8.0, I volunteer to be the guinea pig and try to lock myself out of AP.

 

[JasonT]

I have an hour commute each way for work, so I decided to do a test on this this evening. The trigger for the three strikes rule is the audio chime. The tests I performed are as follows:

1st test - wait for AP warn me with the popup, and then the white flashing border. As soon as the border showed up, I put my hand on the wheel. I did this 3 times, no lockout.

2nd test - This time I waited longer - I waited until the white border started flashing faster. I then put my hand on the wheel. I did this three times, no lockout.

3rd test - Waited even longer still. After the white border speeds up, it starts to chime. As soon as I heard the first chime I put my hand on the wheel. The third time it chimed, the car said "OH HELL NO". It started beeping loudly at me, insisting that I needed to take over. The car started to slow down, but I found if I pushed the accelerator it would continue to steer (and beep at me). I disabled AP at that point, and wasn't able to start it again until I went into Park.

Worth noting that although the 3 strikes were within an hour, they were not all within the same AP session (In case you were hoping this could be a way out of it). Due to my route I had to cancel it after the first strike, and then resume it and got the second and third strike.

I don't have video of it, but I feel like the audio chime happens much later now than it did pre 8.0. My memory is that the warning would pop up, and very soon after the chime would happen. Now you get the popup, and what feels like a pretty long time of the white border before it chimes.

If there are any other questions about this, let me know and I can do more tests on Monday

 

[u00mem9]

Were the nags more frequent?

 

[chillaban]

I also did a test:

I allowed the car to go to "silent strobing white border" 5 times within a few minutes and was still allowed to continue using AP.

I think you have to repeatedly enter the beeping phase, or some combination of beeping.

 

[jelloslug]

Interesting. Where on the outside of the wheel are you touching. What kind of car? Do you have the heated steering wheel?

60D, no heated wheel.

 

[Model S M.D.]

@BLKTSLA Just made a new video showing autopilot being disabled after ignoring beeps/audio warnings.

AP in 8.0

 

[sillydriver]

I also did a test:

I allowed the car to go to "silent strobing white border" 5 times within a few minutes and was still allowed to continue using AP.

I think you have to repeatedly enter the beeping phase, or some combination of beeping.

For me, this is the key test. I think we all should be able to see the strobes and react to them if we are paying attention to the road (as opposed to texting, watching a movie, etc). So if we are paying attention, we need not keep hands on continuously, nor will those with a light touch which doesn't always trigger the wheel's torque sensor be penalized. This is good news.

Separately, thanks to @BLKTSLA for his great video showing us what the nags actually look like.

Now I just need to get 8.0 staged to my car!

 

[JasonT]

Were the nags more frequent?

This is really hard for me to say. When I went into work, I just drove normally and I didn't feel the nags were much different. However, for my tests on the way home, I purposely didn't touch the steering wheel, and I got a lot more nags than I have before.

Early on in AP I did some tests and I felt like the only time I got the nag was when the system wasn't sure what was ahead. However, I haven't messed with that since.

So, in my little test, I feel the nags certainly can be much worse than the first release of AP, but whether it is worse than say....the most recent update just before 8, I really don't know.

 

[chillaban]

I feel like the nag frequency did not change from 7.1 to 8.0. Overall, taking a road trip feels just as relaxing if not more relaxing in 8.0 as in 7.1, mainly due to the AP lane holding, truck passing, and two-car anticipation of traffic jams.

 

[mhan00]

I feel like the nag frequency did not change from 7.1 to 8.0. Overall, taking a road trip feels just as relaxing if not more relaxing in 8.0 as in 7.1, mainly due to the AP lane holding, truck passing, and two-car anticipation of traffic jams.

I'd love to know how well the AP 8.0 tracked two or more cars ahead. Did you notice any false positives or times when it couldn't see past the car ahead of you? How many cars past the initial one could AP see? And did you notice any better behavior from AP in situations where the car ahead of you changed lanes or turned (even though you're not supposed to use AP on road's where this is possible) and there was still a cat in in front of you?

 

[chillaban]

I'd love to know how well the AP 8.0 tracked two or more cars ahead. Did you notice any false positives or times when it couldn't see past the car ahead of you? How many cars past the initial one could AP see? And did you notice any better behavior from AP in situations where the car ahead of you changed lanes or turned (even though you're not supposed to use AP on road's where this is possible) and there was still a cat in in front of you?

It actually does this pretty well and the shortcomings are frankly irrelevant in the real world.

At highway speeds, it sees two separate cars most easily when there is a large speed differential between the two cars. For example, the 2nd car rapidly slowing down.

At city and stop and go speeds below 45-ish mph it seems to see the car in front almost entirely consistently.


Cut-out detection is exactly the scenario you mentioned: it is much much much better at handling when the car in front turns or changes lanes and reveals a slower car. The radar clearly identifies the partially revealed car, shows both of them in the white color that indicates TACC is using it as a tracking target.

Some cars, especially sports cars that are low slung, do seem to obscure the ability to see the car in front. But the radar sees over and under and around cars so it'll still see a pickup truck in front of a Corvette and it certainly sees the car in front once there's a huge speed differential or it starts moving out of the way to reveal a slower car.

 

[mhan00]

It actually does this pretty well and the shortcomings are frankly irrelevant in the real world.

At highway speeds, it sees two separate cars most easily when there is a large speed differential between the two cars. For example, the 2nd car rapidly slowing down.

At city and stop and go speeds below 45-ish mph it seems to see the car in front almost entirely consistently.


Cut-out detection is exactly the scenario you mentioned: it is much much much better at handling when the car in front turns or changes lanes and reveals a slower car. The radar clearly identifies the partially revealed car, shows both of them in the white color that indicates TACC is using it as a tracking target.

Some cars, especially sports cars that are low slung, do seem to obscure the ability to see the car in front. But the radar sees over and under and around cars so it'll still see a pickup truck in front of a Corvette and it certainly sees the car in front once there's a huge speed differential or it starts moving out of the way to reveal a slower car.

Awesome. Thanks for the info.

 

[KublaConn]

Just from watching BLKTSLA's demonstration video where he lets the system reach the "failed" point, it looks like an "ignore event" is defined by having reached the point of audible notification. This makes sense since there is an escalation of attempts to get the driver's attention leading up to the chime.