Why are TACC, AP (and ?FSD) so bad?

[mspohr]

Just recently took another long drive in my 2022 Model S LR and tried out TACC and AP again. (I didn't purchase FSD since it's not ready for prime time).
Still serious problems:
- Multiple phantom braking episodes on deserted straight roads (single and double lane)
- Multiple "Collision warning" panic attacks... again on empty straight roads
- AP doesn't handle curves below a certain radius and drifts out of its lane
- AP does adjust speed when the posted speed changes (good) but TACC doesn't (bad)

I don't know if FSD has these same problems but I certainly don't want to spend more money to find out.
I'd like TACC and AP to just do what was advertised... control the speed of the car and keep it in its lane. (And please, stop panicking)

 

[GtiMart]

You can reduce the collision warning level, maybe it was too sensitive for your driving style.
I've never had autopilot unable to follow a curve... maybe you were driving a bit fast? Were you at or close to the speed limit?
For phantom brakings, were you on a divided highway? If not divided, then it's documented that autopilot isn't meant for that. This comment might apply to the curve too...

 

[Tam]

...I've never had autopilot unable to follow a curve...

That's not news. It can take some curves and not others. Over the years, it can take more and more curves but not all.

...maybe you were driving a bit fast?...

That's an essential factor. Autopilot can adjust its speed to accommodate some curves but not others.

When it does not, drivers need to memorize which curves and start to reduce the speed in the future manually.

...For phantom brakings, were you on a divided highway?...

Again, to be consistent with the system, sometimes there are no phantom brakes, and sometimes there are. The 8 car pile up accident in San Francisco is well divided and it still happened

 

[mspohr]

You can reduce the collision warning level, maybe it was too sensitive for your driving style.
I've never had autopilot unable to follow a curve... maybe you were driving a bit fast? Were you at or close to the speed limit?
For phantom brakings, were you on a divided highway? If not divided, then it's documented that autopilot isn't meant for that. This comment might apply to the curve too...

I'll see if I can adjust the collision warning level.
AP can't follow curves. It sets itself to the posted speed limit but seems to ignore the yellow curve suggested speed signs. It slows down somewhat but not enough to stay in the lane unless it is just a gentle curve.
I've had lots of phantom braking on divided highways.
TACC and AP are pretty much useless (and dangerous).

 

[Twiglett]

I'll see if I can adjust the collision warning level.
AP can't follow curves. It sets itself to the posted speed limit but seems to ignore the yellow curve suggested speed signs. It slows down somewhat but not enough to stay in the lane unless it is just a gentle curve.
I've had lots of phantom braking on divided highways.
TACC and AP are pretty much useless (and dangerous).

AP reads almost no signs other than regular speed limit signs.
If your car cannot follow any curve then there is something wrong with it, if its anything else it may just be an expectation difference.
TACC and AP are only dangerous if you expect them to do all the driving for you, they are both just driver assist features not autonomy.

 

[mspohr]

AP reads almost no signs other than regular speed limit signs.
If your car cannot follow any curve then there is something wrong with it, if its anything else it may just be an expectation difference.
TACC and AP are only dangerous if you expect them to do all the driving for you, they are both just driver assist features not autonomy.

My expectation is that AP will follow curves. It does slow down on curves but not enough to avoid driving outside its lane.
I expect TACC and AP to control the speed of the car and keep it in its lane. These are the advertised features.
My experience is that TACC and AP are only dangerous if you turn them on. Phantom braking, collision panics and straying from its lane are all dangerous.

 

[PVia]

It has not been determined what caused the 8 car pileup in SF...

 

[mspohr]

It has not been determined what caused the 8 car pileup in SF...

You mean they haven't found the phantom?

 

[COS Blue]

Still serious problems:
- Multiple phantom braking episodes on deserted straight roads (single and double lane)
- Multiple "Collision warning" panic attacks... again on empty straight roads
- AP doesn't handle curves below a certain radius and drifts out of its lane
- AP does adjust speed when the posted speed changes (good) but TACC doesn't (bad)

TACC also no longer works correctly if the sun is low in the sky, or if there's glare. It just starts slowing the car down. Thanks, Tesla Vision!

 

[Ozdw]

TACC also no longer works correctly if the sun is low in the sky, or if there's glare. It just starts slowing the car down. Thanks, Tesla Vision!

I call it "Shadow Unaware Cruise Control System", as it seems to mistake shadow patterns on the road for an obstacle or oncoming vehicle. SUCCS is fine for me on divided highways, but a real pain on rural roads. At least they finally made auto-headlights work well.

 

[DrChaos]

I'll see if I can adjust the collision warning level.
AP can't follow curves. It sets itself to the posted speed limit but seems to ignore the yellow curve suggested speed signs. It slows down somewhat but not enough to stay in the lane unless it is just a gentle curve.
I've had lots of phantom braking on divided highways.
TACC and AP are pretty much useless (and dangerous).

I'm in SoCal, and for the last few months the AP on freeways has been great for me and better than versions a few months ago. It can go through decent enough off-ramps and freeway interchanges and it selects a reasonable enough speed.

Phantom braking is mild (not full screeching stop) and less and less frequent.

Something doesn't sound right, for crowded California freeways, it should work well. At a minimum try recalibrating the cameras.

 

[powertoold]

AP on highway is amazing. I use it 100% of the time I'm on highway. Avoid the right-most lane (merging lane)

 

[Twiglett]

My expectation is that AP will follow curves. It does slow down on curves but not enough to avoid driving outside its lane.
I expect TACC and AP to control the speed of the car and keep it in its lane. These are the advertised features.
My experience is that TACC and AP are only dangerous if you turn them on. Phantom braking, collision panics and straying from its lane are all dangerous.

just checking - your car fails to take corners on highways?

 

[mspohr]

just checking - your car fails to take corners on highways?

Two lane highway (most recent CA 190). This is a winding road with a speed limit of 55 for the curvy parts. Gentle curves no problem. Sharper curves (those with the big yellow speed advisory signs) it slows down but not enough to successfully navigate the curve and ends up going out of the lane into the oncoming lane or off the edge of the road.
The fact that it slows down tells me that there must be something in its little brain that knows it's a curve and that it should slow down but it's not able to calibrate the speed to the curve.

 

[mspohr]

I'm in SoCal, and for the last few months the AP on freeways has been great for me and better than versions a few months ago. It can go through decent enough off-ramps and freeway interchanges and it selects a reasonable enough speed.

Phantom braking is mild (not full screeching stop) and less and less frequent.

Something doesn't sound right, for crowded California freeways, it should work well. At a minimum try recalibrating the cameras.

AP works well on freeways except for the phantom braking. I have noticed that the phantom braking does seem to be less abrupt lately... maybe that's progress?

 

[Twiglett]

Two lane highway (most recent CA 190). This is a winding road with a speed limit of 55 for the curvy parts. Gentle curves no problem. Sharper curves (those with the big yellow speed advisory signs) it slows down but not enough to successfully navigate the curve and ends up going out of the lane into the oncoming lane or off the edge of the road.
The fact that it slows down tells me that there must be something in its little brain that knows it's a curve and that it should slow down but it's not able to calibrate the speed to the curve.

yeah - sadly while AP will mostly work on regular roads, it is really supposed to be on freeway/divided highways.
Having said that, you can get good results in some places, not so good in others. Because it's only using what it can figure out from the road ahead and not using any warning signs it can be much less successful in those places. Its use of maps seems to be intermittent as well.
As you get used to what it can and can't do it does become much more useful and relaxing. Much less so at the beginning when your expectation is that it is more capable than it really is.
Give it a chance and you will find all the places where it's pretty darned good, then you will know where you really need to be driving yourself.
After a while it becomes seamless for you.

It's also worth playing with the various settings for speed control. There are a myriad of options that let you configure it just the way you want.

 

[mspohr]

yeah - sadly while AP will mostly work on regular roads, it is really supposed to be on freeway/divided highways.
Having said that, you can get good results in some places, not so good in others. Because it's only using what it can figure out from the road ahead and not using any warning signs it can be much less successful in those places. Its use of maps seems to be intermittent as well.
As you get used to what it can and can't do it does become much more useful and relaxing. Much less so at the beginning when your expectation is that it is more capable than it really is.
Give it a chance and you will find all the places where it's pretty darned good, then you will know where you really need to be driving yourself.
After a while it becomes seamless for you.

It's also worth playing with the various settings for speed control. There are a myriad of options that let you configure it just the way you want.

Thank you.
I'll keep trying.

 

[PVia]

while AP will mostly work on regular roads, it is really supposed to be on freeway/divided highways.

This...

 

[FirstInTown]

while AP will mostly work on regular roads, it is really supposed to be on freeway/divided highways.

Well then TACC is a TERRIBLE L2 driver assist. My mistake for assuming it was as good at NOT slamming on the brakes as our Volt, Caddy and Mustang Adaptive cruise control on regular roads. NEVER had phantom braking before on those and didn't even know Phantom Braking was a thing until got a Tesla. And it sucks.

To answer the question, Tesla can't do as good a job as Mobile Eye at controlling the speed of a L2 car. Before Tesla got into a pizzing match and wanted to over sell the Mobile Eye based AP back in 2016, Tesla used Mobile Eye and it was good. Then TechNOking oversold it, Mobile Eye pulled themselves from Tesla, and Tesla hasn't been able to do as good a job since on there own. Atleast that's my understanding from descriptions of MS owners than had the old, good Mobile Eye system.

 

[jmcdono362]

Well then TACC is a TERRIBLE L2 driver assist. My mistake for assuming it was as good at NOT slamming on the brakes as our Volt, Caddy and Mustang Adaptive cruise control on regular roads. NEVER had phantom braking before on those and didn't even know Phantom Braking was a thing until got a Tesla. And it sucks.

To answer the question, Tesla can't do as good a job as Mobile Eye at controlling the speed of a L2 car. Before Tesla got into a pizzing match and wanted to over sell the Mobile Eye based AP back in 2016, Tesla used Mobile Eye and it was good. Then TechNOking oversold it, Mobile Eye pulled themselves from Tesla, and Tesla hasn't been able to do as good a job since on there own. Atleast that's my understanding from descriptions of MS owners than had the old, good Mobile Eye system.

AP1 owner here (2015 Model S) and can attest to how good it works on the freeway. It really is stress reducing and way better than my mother's 2021 Subaru Forester Eyesight. Her car ping pongs even with lane centering, constantly nags and beeps at you, and completely gives up steering on any slight bend on a back road. At least AP1 tries real hard to maintain the centering and does so quietly.

I wish Tesla continued to use Mobile Eye's system for boring freeway drives and continued their work on FSD for local streets.