Why did Tesla remove option to disable regenerative braking?

[Tipjar]

I'm asking here instead of directly to Tesla because their only Contact Us options were for solar roofs or calling a store and neither of them knows....

While test driving the Model Y I noticed the regenerative braking was pretty aggressive. I called the sales person from the car to ask if I could adjust it. He explained that unfortunately Tesla removed the option to disable regenerative braking in the October 2020 software update, and suggested cheerfully that it's a driving experience drivers adapt to. (Some context here, I'm used to regenerative braking from my Prius of the past five years, but I like the freedom of easily toggling it on or off as needed, and its resistance is considerably milder than Tesla's.) I found Tesla's regenerative braking to be so strong it was similar to actively depressing a brake pedal half way to the floor when the foot wasn't on the accelerator. In my opinion it was a fatiguing nuisance having to stay on top of the accelerator all the time. I know you can engage cruise control as a workaround but cruise is only useful in certain conditions.

I went to an Earth Day fair a week later because many makes and models of EVs would be there and I wanted to hear pros and cons directly from owners. One Model Y owner said he'd always driven with regenerative braking at the maximum setting anyway so it didn't bother him, but he felt sure there was still a way to turn it off. Then a woman, intrigued by the topic, offered to take me on a test drive in her Model Y and go through all the settings for regenerative braking. We did and both agreed none of the settings made much difference. Then she confessed that she can't take her best friend around in her car because the regenerative braking gives her friend motion sickness, and that she'd heard similar stories from others. (But she was still crazy about her Model Y.)

What do you think Tesla's rationale is for removing the option of turning off regenerative braking, especially when it could limit their pool of consumers? It's a deal breaker for any buyer who has to consider how many kids/relatives, friends, business associates, or other unknown future passengers it might affect. My only thought has been maybe Tesla wants to pump up their range statistics and didn't realize that it could make some people ill or fatigued if they suffer from motion sickness or certain disabilities.

Aside from that, I'm bothered a seller can change something without my permission after I've paid for it.

 

[Jigglypuff]

I do like the one pedal driving, but even a momentary lapse and the whole car jerks. It's not easy to drive smooth.

 

[drtimhill]

I've had the 2020 Y for 11 months now. It is possible, but quite difficult, for me to be smooth enough so my wife cannot tell. Full disclosure, she did get car sick in our Lexus NX as well, but it is worse in the model Y.

Does she look at her phone when you are driving? Looking at books/phones etc in the car can cause (or make much worse) motion sickness (really!).

 

[DanDi58]

I do like the one pedal driving, but even a momentary lapse and the whole car jerks. It's not easy to drive smooth.

On the contrary, I find it very easy to drive smoothly.... Yes, if you have to quickly remove your foot from the accelerator pedal, the car slows abruptly - like slamming on the brake pedal in an ICE vehicle. But in general, I love the one-pedal driving.

 

[bobbyjae]

I'm so used to one-pedal driving that I am now jerky on our other ICE vehicle.

 

[avs007]

On the contrary, I find it very easy to drive smoothly.... Yes, if you have to quickly remove your foot from the accelerator pedal, the car slows abruptly - like slamming on the brake pedal in an ICE vehicle. But in general, I love the one-pedal driving.

I just wish they changed the UI to be a little easier to read. Its hard to tell at a glance how much regen capability you have, becuase those stupid dots are hard to see when it's 6 point font grey on white.. Now that it's getting colder, sometimes it catches me by surprise when I'm approaching the stop sign in the middle of the hill, there is enough regen that I still need to apply pressure to the accelerator while going down the hill, but when I lift the accelerator completely, there is not enough regen to come anywhere close to being able to stop... It's not THAT big a deal, as it's easy enough to compensate, but it makes it so it is not very smooth. Especially annoying when the amount of regen you get fluctuates up and down on the same drive. For the past few weeks, I noticed it has enough regen for the first few stop signs going down our hill, but by the time I get near the bottom, I have next to no regen. My only explanation for this, is maybe the battery was warm when I left the garage of my house, but then it quickly cooled as I went down the hill, losing regen capability along the drive.

 

[smogne41]

Something I discovered recently, the S3XY buttons (S3XY Buttons) allow you to adjust regen level even on the newer cars that do not have that setting available. This is because the CAN commands are still present. Furthermore, you actually get multiple levels of regen available to select from (0, 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100%). This is only on the 3 and Y so far, but I thought this might be of interest to some here.

 

[angus[Y]oung]

Something I discovered recently, the S3XY buttons (S3XY Buttons) allow you to adjust regen level even on the newer cars that do not have that setting available. This is because the CAN commands are still present. Furthermore, you actually get multiple levels of regen available to select from (0, 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100%). This is only on the 3 and Y so far, but I thought this might be of interest to some here.

@smogne41 wow nice discovery! This might be a great workaround for anyone interested in that control.

 

[CorneliusRox]

Something I discovered recently, the S3XY buttons (S3XY Buttons) allow you to adjust regen level even on the newer cars that do not have that setting available. This is because the CAN commands are still present. Furthermore, you actually get multiple levels of regen available to select from (0, 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100%). This is only on the 3 and Y so far, but I thought this might be of interest to some here.

This is incredible! Thank you for this!

 

[smogne41]

This is incredible! Thank you for this!

To clarify, I have not personally done this. But the developers of the buttons were asked about this and they do claim it specifically as a working feature.

 

[FrankHansenOsl]

I have to agree with Big Earl. If you can control your foot well enough to accelerate smoothly, you can control it well enough to decelerate slowly.

Sure, you can continue to drive as if the car will coast if you lift your foot off the pedal entirely, and curse the car every time it doesn't do that. Or you can learn how to control a modern car.

how to control a modern car? most other electric cars has not removed this option... and on Ice, this is not a good thing.

 

[GtiMart]

On ice, the car reduces regen by itself as soon as it senses slipping, and bring it back up gently. I'm not against controling regen manually but it's not a security issue.

 

[andrejpodzimek]

IMO the biggest problem with single pedal driving is the fact that you can brake using your accelerator pedal. Which has a simple yet harsh consequence: incidents such as mistaking the gas for the brake. Such incidents were unheard of ~15 years ago, yet they are all over the news nowadays as more and more cars provide this “feature”. (This is definitely not specific to Teslas or to EVs in general; some combustion cars and (especially) hybrids may provide such a feature as well.)

Keeping the roles of the two pedals separate is probably the safest option (as in “relatively safe from notoriously broken human intuition”).

I would like to mention the Polestar 2 as a shiny example of how (IMHO) things should work: On the Polestar 2 you can switch single pedal driving on if you want (and pick a regeneration intensity that suits you best), but you can also switch it off completely. Of course the latter does not imply giving up on regenerative braking: the brake pedal is nicely integrated with regenerative braking.

On the dashboard you can always check the threshold beyond which regenerative braking power is insufficient and disc brakes must be (also) applied. Importantly, the power meter widget also shows you your current regenerative braking limitations; for example, when you charge your battery to 99% (which you should not do, but if), then your regenerative braking power is limited (because the battery can only charge slowly at that level) and disc brakes will kick in even during mild braking, which the power meter nicely shows.

If Tesla could have that^^^, that would be awesome.

What surprised me in this thread though: Is it really the case that when you use the brake pedal in a Tesla (say, dual motor Model 3), you are always applying the disc brakes? Isn’t there a “grey zone” of some sort in which the brake pedal intensifies regenerative braking, but doesn’t resort to friction yet?

(Disclaimer: I’m not a Tesla owner, I just love to rent them and have driven like 20000 km in various Model 3s. I’ve never explored the braking configuration in detail; what I can say though is that I like the Polestar 2 setup much more than Tesla’s “mandatory single pedal” idea.)

 

[GtiMart]

As far as I know, the brake pedal only applies friction brakes. Since a recent software update one-pedal driving optionally also applies friction brakes if your regen is limited (full or cold battery), which is the inverse of what you are asking for

From what I have read and listened to on youtube, it is very difficult for a blended brake pedal to give a great feedback and switch from one to the other flawlessly. There are always bad side effects. For now...

 

[DanDi58]

...when you charge your battery to 99% (which you should not do, but if)...

Incorrect. There is nothing wrong in charging to 100% if you need to. The idea is to minimize the amount of time the car is sitting at 90% plus, but there is no reason you can't charge to 90%+ if needed.

And as far as regen goes, I don't agree with your premise that it has caused an increase in people hitting the accelerator instead of the brake. Would like to see your source for that statement. One pedal driving is, to me, one of the great advantages of driving an EV.

 

[Johnny Vector]

IMO the biggest problem with single pedal driving is the fact that you can brake using your accelerator pedal. Which has a simple yet harsh consequence: incidents such as mistaking the gas for the brake. Such incidents were unheard of ~15 years ago, yet they are all over the news nowadays as more and more cars provide this “feature”. (This is definitely not specific to Teslas or to EVs in general; some combustion cars and (especially) hybrids may provide such a feature as well.)

Keeping the roles of the two pedals separate is probably the safest option (as in “relatively safe from notoriously broken human intuition”).

Using the wrong pedal was unheard of years ago? Only if you don't actually pay attention. It happened all the time. You'll need to provide some evidence that it's more common now. And I'm willing to bet you can't find any. Consider, for instance, that getting a braking effect from lifting off the accelerator also happens in gassers with a manual transmission. And that "stepping on a pedal" is not at all the same as "lifting off a pedal".

 

[avs007]

IMO the biggest problem with single pedal driving is the fact that you can brake using your accelerator pedal. Which has a simple yet harsh consequence: incidents such as mistaking the gas for the brake. Such incidents were unheard of ~15 years ago, yet they are all over the news nowadays

I disagree. Mistaking the gas for the brake happened ALL THE TIME. I remember on the news as a kid about the Audi 5000 having sudden unintended acceleration. And this was in the early 80's. I remember for the longest time they thought it was a defect with the car, but I remember reading it was actually just people confusing the two pedals or something like that... It even says this for Toyota's that had this problem in the same article, and that was 20 years ago.

As far as one pedal driving, I can't see how it can encourage confusing the two pedals at all, becuase you do not PRESS the accelerator to slow down, you RELEASE it. It's basically no different then releasing the gas on a stick shift. It slows the car down, but it's still pretty intuitive to press the brake pedal to slow down further.

 

[WindPower]

I think the requirement to have regen braking is due to the way 'mileage' (range) is presented to the consumer by the car manufacturer. If the mileage testing was done with regen turned on, then the car needs to be shipped with regen on. Keep in mind that regen has the effect of improving mileage (how many miles you can go on one charge). If Tesla were to allow removal of regen, then they would need to retest and present the new mileage with regen off.

If you can turn off regen and the mileage goes down, Tesla would have to show a mileage DECREASE which I'm sure is not what they want to do from a marketing point of view.

 

[smogne41]

I think the requirement to have regen braking is due to the way 'mileage' (range) is presented to the consumer by the car manufacturer. If the mileage testing was done with regen turned on, then the car needs to be shipped with regen on. Keep in mind that regen has the effect of improving mileage (how many miles you can go on one charge). If Tesla were to allow removal of regen, then they would need to retest and present the new mileage with regen off.

If you can turn off regen and the mileage goes down, Tesla would have to show a mileage DECREASE which I'm sure is not what they want to do from a marketing point of view.

I don't buy this explanation. Why do all the other manufactures who offer adjustable regen not have to deal with that? Including the ones that even let you adjust regen on paddle shifters??? Besides, Tesla had no trouble selling every car they made when they did let you set regen to high or low, they would continue to have no trouble selling every car they can make (in fact they would probably sell a few more because of the small percentage of buyers who this is a deal breaker for) . And there is no hardware change that mandated this, the CANbus commands are still there in all the newer cars and you can use S3XY buttons to set the regen yourself. This has Elon (and his obsession with taking things away) written all over it.

 

[drtimhill]

IMO the biggest problem with single pedal driving is the fact that you can brake using your accelerator pedal. Which has a simple yet harsh consequence: incidents such as mistaking the gas for the brake. Such incidents were unheard of ~15 years ago, yet they are all over the news nowadays as more and more cars provide this “feature”. (This is definitely not specific to Teslas or to EVs in general; some combustion cars and (especially) hybrids may provide such a feature as well.)

hmmm I'm not aware of this incidence increasing. Certainly decades ago there were many cases of cars crashing at speed as people "slammed on the brakes" but in fact hit the accelerator instead.

And in fact, you could validly argue the complete OPPOSITE of your point. Unintended acceleration events can be traced back to having the same action (slamming down on a pedal) causing different effects merely depending on which pedal you depress. If instead your training is to press DOWN to go faster but lift your foot UP to go slower, you are far less likely to accidentally accelerate when you want to brake, since the muscle action is totally different.

There is also the issue that it takes time to move your foot OFF the accelerator and ONTO the brake pedal. In traditional cars, the first braking effect therefore does not occur until you begin depressing the brake pedal. In a regen car the car is already slowing down as you lift your foot off the accelerator and before your foot gets to the brake pedal .. and that split-second difference could be vital in an emergency.

 

[nate704]

I want more regen power like double the current level.