Why did Tesla remove option to disable regenerative braking?

[Tipjar]

I'm asking here instead of directly to Tesla because their only Contact Us options were for solar roofs or calling a store and neither of them knows....

While test driving the Model Y I noticed the regenerative braking was pretty aggressive. I called the sales person from the car to ask if I could adjust it. He explained that unfortunately Tesla removed the option to disable regenerative braking in the October 2020 software update, and suggested cheerfully that it's a driving experience drivers adapt to. (Some context here, I'm used to regenerative braking from my Prius of the past five years, but I like the freedom of easily toggling it on or off as needed, and its resistance is considerably milder than Tesla's.) I found Tesla's regenerative braking to be so strong it was similar to actively depressing a brake pedal half way to the floor when the foot wasn't on the accelerator. In my opinion it was a fatiguing nuisance having to stay on top of the accelerator all the time. I know you can engage cruise control as a workaround but cruise is only useful in certain conditions.

I went to an Earth Day fair a week later because many makes and models of EVs would be there and I wanted to hear pros and cons directly from owners. One Model Y owner said he'd always driven with regenerative braking at the maximum setting anyway so it didn't bother him, but he felt sure there was still a way to turn it off. Then a woman, intrigued by the topic, offered to take me on a test drive in her Model Y and go through all the settings for regenerative braking. We did and both agreed none of the settings made much difference. Then she confessed that she can't take her best friend around in her car because the regenerative braking gives her friend motion sickness, and that she'd heard similar stories from others. (But she was still crazy about her Model Y.)

What do you think Tesla's rationale is for removing the option of turning off regenerative braking, especially when it could limit their pool of consumers? It's a deal breaker for any buyer who has to consider how many kids/relatives, friends, business associates, or other unknown future passengers it might affect. My only thought has been maybe Tesla wants to pump up their range statistics and didn't realize that it could make some people ill or fatigued if they suffer from motion sickness or certain disabilities.

Aside from that, I'm bothered a seller can change something without my permission after I've paid for it.

 

[DanDi58]

I disagree. Mistaking the gas for the brake happened ALL THE TIME. I remember on the news as a kid about the Audi 5000 having sudden unintended acceleration. And this was in the early 80's. I remember for the longest time they thought it was a defect with the car, but I remember reading it was actually just people confusing the two pedals or something like that... It even says this for Toyota's that had this problem in the same article, and that was 20 years ago.

As far as one pedal driving, I can't see how it can encourage confusing the two pedals at all, becuase you do not PRESS the accelerator to slow down, you RELEASE it. It's basically no different then releasing the gas on a stick shift. It slows the car down, but it's still pretty intuitive to press the brake pedal to slow down further.

And in the current media environment, where anything anti-EV seems to sell papers, you see the few incidents of SUI that are in a Tesla are ALL the result of driver error, not the car doing something. With the Audi the fix was simple - they moved the brake pedal a little farther away. I imagine German drivers had a hearty laugh at that 'fix'.

 

[TomThimb]

I have to agree with Big Earl. If you can control your foot well enough to accelerate smoothly, you can control it well enough to decelerate slowly.

Sure, you can continue to drive as if the car will coast if you lift your foot off the pedal entirely, and curse the car every time it doesn't do that. Or you can learn how to control a modern car.

 

[TomThimb]

Clearly tesla saw the value of this feature and only removed it to help with corp positioning and epa reporting. This feature is available on almost every other make of EV, so blaming the driver for a feature that was included and is available on others is really pretty dishonest.

 

[drtimhill]

Clearly tesla saw the value of this feature and only removed it to help with corp positioning and epa reporting. This feature is available on almost every other make of EV, so blaming the driver for a feature that was included and is available on others is really pretty dishonest.

So purchase another makers EV? Not clear how its "dishonest" to not include a feature, regardless of what it is.

As for the OP, "regenerative braking was pretty aggressive" I think means "I took my foot off the accelerator like I do with an ICE car and it slowed down too fast", which is like saying "I slammed on the brake pedal and it stopped too quickly". The answer to both, of course, is "well, do it more gently". To put it another way, this is an example of "I got an EV and it was different to drive from my ICE car, so something is wrong with it!".

 

[yobigd20]

Agressive regen is flat out dangerous in snow and ice. Coming from 2013 p85 to MY i was shocked this option was removed. We need the ability to disable this in cold climate regions.

 

[drtimhill]

Agressive regen is flat out dangerous in snow and ice. Coming from 2013 p85 to MY i was shocked this option was removed. We need the ability to disable this in cold climate regions.

Why? if you change the word "regen" in your post to "braking", what do you observe? I've driven my M3 on roads that are almost sheets of ice, and yes I drive VERY carefully, using very very gentle lift-off on the accelerator as needed, using gentle regen to slow the car carefully.

Regen is just a different mechanism for applying a braking force to the wheels. The only difference is HOW you apply that force via the control mechanisms of the car. Which comes down to driver aptitude, not the capabilities of the car.

 

[yobigd20]

Why? if you change the word "regen" in your post to "braking", what do you observe? I've driven my M3 on roads that are almost sheets of ice, and yes I drive VERY carefully, using very very gentle lift-off on the accelerator as needed, using gentle regen to slow the car carefully.

Regen is just a different mechanism for applying a braking force to the wheels. The only difference is HOW you apply that force via the control mechanisms of the car. Which comes down to driver aptitude, not the capabilities of the car.

Thats like saying sure lets put a gun to your head with a hairline trigger and maybe just maybe if you squeeze juuuuusst light enough it won't go off. But hey if you were given the option of not putting a bullet in the chamber in the first place, wouldn't you prefer that?

 

[nate704]

Regent is just different type of slowing down as known as braking. You need to learn how to use it properly while driving on all weather conditions.
I hope Tesla increases the regen force from the current level

 

[WyoDude]

Why? if you change the word "regen" in your post to "braking", what do you observe? I've driven my M3 on roads that are almost sheets of ice, and yes I drive VERY carefully, using very very gentle lift-off on the accelerator as needed, using gentle regen to slow the car carefully.

Regen is just a different mechanism for applying a braking force to the wheels. The only difference is HOW you apply that force via the control mechanisms of the car. Which comes down to driver aptitude, not the capabilities of the car.

While overall I generally agree that people have to learn how to control an EV as it is different from ICE and this will solve a lot of peoples issues, the lack of ability to turn it off or real low does suck for snow and ice some times. This isn’t just simply “you need to learn how to drive better” as your (and others like Nate) position often is. There are situations going down hill on slick roads where turning off regen would make things simpler and it’s ok for owners to want this ability because it can be easily added and gives drivers control over how they want to operate their vehicle.

 

[laservet]

I love the regen in the Y, wish it were even stronger. I grew up driving a stick, so it took me about 60 seconds to adjust my driving so my wife wouldn't get queasy. I have all the settings at their most aggressive and even my wife, who gets motion sickness watching fish in an aquarium, has no problems.

 

[drtimhill]

Thats like saying sure lets put a gun to your head with a hairline trigger and maybe just maybe if you squeeze juuuuusst light enough it won't go off. But hey if you were given the option of not putting a bullet in the chamber in the first place, wouldn't you prefer that?

No it isnt. To use your analogy it's like having two different triggers, both with the same sensitivity but using a different mechanism, and complaining about one being sensitive but not the other.

Regen braking and conventional braking can both be used to apply varying brake force to the wheels, from a very very gentle easing back through to an aggressive slowing. The ONLY difference is that in one case you gently ease your foot UP on a pedal and in the other case you gently ease your foot DOWN on a pedal. Posts arguing the regen are bad are really posts about familiarity .. "it's different and I dont like it" or "I lifted my foot off the accelerator and the car slowed down WAY fast". Which is like someone complaining that when they slam their foot down on the brake pedal the car screeches to a halt.

 

[drtimhill]

While overall I generally agree that people have to learn how to control an EV as it is different from ICE and this will solve a lot of peoples issues, the lack of ability to turn it off or real low does suck for snow and ice some times. This isn’t just simply “you need to learn how to drive better” as your (and others like Nate) position often is. There are situations going down hill on slick roads where turning off regen would make things simpler and it’s ok for owners to want this ability because it can be easily added and gives drivers control over how they want to operate their vehicle.

Agreed that there are cases like this, and I can't argue that there would be any harm in having an on/off setting. My point, as you note, was that in many cases these posts are mostly an "I dont like it cause its different" type of thing.

 

[exxxviii]

Regen is just a different mechanism for applying a braking force to the wheels. The only difference is HOW you apply that force via the control mechanisms of the car. Which comes down to driver aptitude, not the capabilities of the car.

This is true, but it takes a very high anptitude and driver precision to perfectly match the wheel speed to vehicle speed on ice or a hydroplane situation. In other cars, when you unexpectedly hit a low traction situation, you can simply lift off the gas, the car will coast, and you regain control. In a Tesla, you have to perfectly feather the accelerator pedal to match speeds. That is pretty freaking difficult under ideal conditions (I can rarely match pedal position to smoothly transition off auto pilot).

I have not hydroplaned my MY yet, but I am a bit nervous about how that first encounter will go. I bigly dislike its mandatory regen in that type of situation.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Regen is just a different mechanism for applying a braking force to the wheels. The only difference is HOW you apply that force via the control mechanisms of the car. Which comes down to driver aptitude, not the capabilities of the car.

Not exactly. Regen operates primarily on the rear axle and shifts to the front motor or brakes after slippage is detected. In this way it's vastly safer and more stable than 99.99% of all the cars and motorbikes (RWD + MT) that have ever existed.

That said, drivers tend to lift and hover over the brake pedal in tricky situations and Tesla's tendency to skid the rear wheels and then weight-shift to the front can be unnerving or dangerous. This is why they specifically warn drivers to use the low regen setting in icy weather if possible:

For owners without this option, Tesla simply says "Lookout!!"

More info here:

Has anyone suddenly started hydroplaning in rain? [tires were bald]

It's not like the Model 3 grabs the steering wheel and steers for you (even though it could!) or can apply positive torque vectoring at the wheels. I've never noticed the Model 3 add power which would kind of be the next amazing step in stability control. I was thinking the same thing, a...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

So purchase another makers EV? Not clear how its "dishonest" to not include a feature, regardless of what it is.

As for the OP, "regenerative braking was pretty aggressive" I think means "I took my foot off the accelerator like I do with an ICE car and it slowed down too fast", which is like saying "I slammed on the brake pedal and it stopped too quickly". The answer to both, of course, is "well, do it more gently". To put it another way, this is an example of "I got an EV and it was different to drive from my ICE car, so something is wrong with it!".

Tesla can do what it likes, but to be clear I'll never buy a Tesla unless it restores regen level options because my wife doesn't want strong regen. My wife prefers to glide/coast when not pressing a pedal and drives with Regen 0 in our Kona and Normal in our Volt.

Tesla has steering and power mode preferences in software. They can do regen.

(The other key reason I won't buy is that there's no dumb cruise option. When you live somewhere with low density, adaptive cruise only isn't worth the sensor dependency and phantom braking risk.)

I love strong regen, and especially how it makes cruise control so good in our undulating terrain, so for the opposite reason, I'm hesitant on the Toyota Primes to replace our Volt due to the potential for the engine to start in cruise control when regenerative braking isn't strong enough.

 

[nate704]

This is true, but it takes a very high anptitude and driver precision to perfectly match the wheel speed to vehicle speed on ice or a hydroplane situation. In other cars, when you unexpectedly hit a low traction situation, you can simply lift off the gas, the car will coast, and you regain control. In a Tesla, you have to perfectly feather the accelerator pedal to match speeds. That is pretty freaking difficult under ideal conditions (I can rarely match pedal position to smoothly transition off auto pilot).

I have not hydroplaned my MY yet, but I am a bit nervous about how that first encounter will go. I bigly dislike its mandatory regen in that type of situation.

Millions of hydroplaned and crashed ICE cars will disagree. Tesla or non Tesla will crash if the driver panics and over reacts. plain and simple. Also, worn out tires or improper tires are other major contributing factors as well. The regen braking is not a major factor.

 

[exxxviii]

The regen braking is not a major factor.

Why not? It is harder to control with precision, is it not? (Your other comments are not germane to matching wheel speed to vehicle speed in a low traction situation.)

 

[AlexHung]

t is harder to control with precision, is it not?

Narrator: No it isn’t.

 

[exxxviii]

Narrator: No it isn’t.

Ok, why not? Serious question. I have not hydroplaned my MY yet, so I have no idea what to expect. I know that in an ICE, it is extremely easy to control. Matching wheel to car with regen is difficult In regular driving. Why would it be easy in loss of traction, seems like the opposite would be true (harder)?

 

[AlexHung]

Ok, why not? Serious question. I have not hydroplaned my MY yet, so I have no idea what to expect. I know that in an ICE, it is extremely easy to control. Matching wheel to car with regen is difficult In regular driving. Why would it be easy in loss of traction, seems like the opposite would be true (harder)?

I have no issue controlling speed with my right foot, either accelerating, constant speed, or slowing down. It’s just pivoting my foot, gently, after all.