Why did Tesla remove option to disable regenerative braking?

[Tipjar]

I'm asking here instead of directly to Tesla because their only Contact Us options were for solar roofs or calling a store and neither of them knows....

While test driving the Model Y I noticed the regenerative braking was pretty aggressive. I called the sales person from the car to ask if I could adjust it. He explained that unfortunately Tesla removed the option to disable regenerative braking in the October 2020 software update, and suggested cheerfully that it's a driving experience drivers adapt to. (Some context here, I'm used to regenerative braking from my Prius of the past five years, but I like the freedom of easily toggling it on or off as needed, and its resistance is considerably milder than Tesla's.) I found Tesla's regenerative braking to be so strong it was similar to actively depressing a brake pedal half way to the floor when the foot wasn't on the accelerator. In my opinion it was a fatiguing nuisance having to stay on top of the accelerator all the time. I know you can engage cruise control as a workaround but cruise is only useful in certain conditions.

I went to an Earth Day fair a week later because many makes and models of EVs would be there and I wanted to hear pros and cons directly from owners. One Model Y owner said he'd always driven with regenerative braking at the maximum setting anyway so it didn't bother him, but he felt sure there was still a way to turn it off. Then a woman, intrigued by the topic, offered to take me on a test drive in her Model Y and go through all the settings for regenerative braking. We did and both agreed none of the settings made much difference. Then she confessed that she can't take her best friend around in her car because the regenerative braking gives her friend motion sickness, and that she'd heard similar stories from others. (But she was still crazy about her Model Y.)

What do you think Tesla's rationale is for removing the option of turning off regenerative braking, especially when it could limit their pool of consumers? It's a deal breaker for any buyer who has to consider how many kids/relatives, friends, business associates, or other unknown future passengers it might affect. My only thought has been maybe Tesla wants to pump up their range statistics and didn't realize that it could make some people ill or fatigued if they suffer from motion sickness or certain disabilities.

Aside from that, I'm bothered a seller can change something without my permission after I've paid for it.

 

[Big Earl]

For those with a tendency toward motion sickness, the solution is to drive more smoothly - feather the accelerator, plan your stops further ahead, etc. Chill mode helps with passengers that easily get motion sickness.

To answer your question, low regen was removed in order to boost the EPA figures due to the way the EPA handles driving modes.

 

[JohnCE]

The regen takes a day or 2 to get the hang of but I would say no one would notice riding around with someone that drives a Tesla everyday. You never just take your foot off the accelerator as would cause a jerky experience.

 

[Tipjar]

Thank you all for your input. It confirmed the option was taken away for the reason I suspected: to give Tesla better numbers. As for those suggesting it's about a learning curve to driving smoother, I've been driving forty years and have experience operating a wide range of vehicles, every style of motorcycle and stick shift cars, trucks, box trucks, and tractors to name a few. I can work a clutch as smooth as any automatic. So I know how to finesse a pedal. The problem is I'm older and have a disability. Little tasks that used to be mildly invigorating as part of the process of engagement now sap valuable energy I need to budget to get through a day. It's not something able bodied people have to think twice about. I never did. Could I drive a Tesla with strong regenerative braking and stay on top of the accelerator all the time? Sure. Is it the best choice for me? No.

CorneliusRox had a good idea with an opt out fee. To which I'd add maybe Tesla could then remove those vehicles that opt out from the pool of vehicles they use to come up with range statistics.

GtiMart says it hasn't been removed on cars that were already sold. If so, that's hopeful. I'd heard differently. I'll keep my mind open to the older units. And while doing so I'll also keep in mind jjrandorin and scissorfighter's point there was never an option to completely turn it off.

 

[GtiMart]

I'm starting to realize that people driving stick shift before moving to EVs probably have an easier time with regen. Since manual transmissions stay in a smaller gear when you let go of the accelerator, we're more used to keeping part throttle when we want to keep a stable speed. Automatic transmission drivers can probably get away with letting go of the gas pedal more as the transmission just jumps to a high gear then and there is not much engine compression going on. It just takes a bit more getting used to

 

[smogne41]

I had issues coming from a standard and driving my LR AWD Y with the standard regen. I was used to coasting up to lights and the regen was too strong. Initially, I set it to low regen which helped. Made it similar to the Prius regen mentioned above. However, as I started going up and down hills more, I switched to the standard regen and have never gone back. What most standard transmission drivers don't get initially (including me), is that pressing the accelerator a wee bit doesn't mean use energy from the battery. Sometimes it means lower the regen. As mentioned above, once you get used to feathering the accelerator, you can have the regen of your dreams. I now love 1 pedal driving. Like any new technology, you have to get used to it. The key is to learn to feather so that it lowers the regen so it appears to coast up to lights or stop signs. The downside is that my wife is now used to ultra smooth driving and now dislikes AutoPilot's rushing up to stop signs and lights and heavier regen braking. She has always dislikes the rapid acceleration, but seriously... I can't help myself!

Are you sure that you can't still turn off 1-peddle? I was under the impression you could just no longer adjust the "Regenerative Breaking" (standard vs. low regen). There is a separate menu setting (at least in the older cars) for "Stopping Mode" where you can choose "creep", "roll", or "hold". This is the setting that allows 1-peddle driving. "Creep" will give you the standard automatic transmission creep forward, "roll" will phase out the regen below ~5mph (so you control the breaking for the last little bit), but 'hold" will regen all the way down to zero and then put on the friction breaks. The last one is the 1-peddle mode.

I tried the 1-peddle "hold" mode for a while and did not like it either. It was much harder to stop exactly where I wanted and it was harsher than stopping manually. I do generally keep regen set to "normal" unless I am driving in winter weather. Can somebody with one of the newer cars comment on this?

 

[iwannam3]

The reason cars like the Mini Cooper S "require" premium gas is that is what the horsepower, torque and EPA mileage numbers were generated with. They will run fine on regular with the modern knock sensors, but produce less HP, Torque and mileage. I bet the EPA range numbers on Teslas were done on full regen. Some people can't or won't do simple things like resting hand on steering wheel to apply a small amount of torque for cruise control or slowly lifting foot off accelerator to slow down. They are capable of complaining though.

 

[frankvb]

This entire EPA argument would disappear if Tesla would just implement blended braking as just about every other EV out there has.

 

[Jigglypuff]

The standard regen is too strong. It takes constant pedal manipulation to deal with. It causes motion sickness among passengers. We're also trained from all the years of driving ICE to not have strong braking when we just lift off the gas. One pedal is for going and one is for stopping. Tesla now has one for going and stopping, and the other for faster stopping. I don't consider this better. Every other EV we've owned has had blended braking, which allows higher levels of energy recovery and a more intuitive system that also matches all my other driving experience. It's extra annoying to switch back and forth with cars with the normal system. The Tesla system simply gives far less control to the driver.

It's not a deal breaker. Teslas have their advantages. It's just another way that Tesla makes mistakes in car design. I've got a long list.

 

[pilotSteve]

Keep improving your regen and brake “feathering” and you will be amazed how smoothly you can make the drive!

 

[andrejpodzimek]

IMO the biggest problem with single pedal driving is the fact that you can brake using your accelerator pedal. Which has a simple yet harsh consequence: incidents such as mistaking the gas for the brake. Such incidents were unheard of ~15 years ago, yet they are all over the news nowadays as more and more cars provide this “feature”. (This is definitely not specific to Teslas or to EVs in general; some combustion cars and (especially) hybrids may provide such a feature as well.)

Keeping the roles of the two pedals separate is probably the safest option (as in “relatively safe from notoriously broken human intuition”).

I would like to mention the Polestar 2 as a shiny example of how (IMHO) things should work: On the Polestar 2 you can switch single pedal driving on if you want (and pick a regeneration intensity that suits you best), but you can also switch it off completely. Of course the latter does not imply giving up on regenerative braking: the brake pedal is nicely integrated with regenerative braking.

On the dashboard you can always check the threshold beyond which regenerative braking power is insufficient and disc brakes must be (also) applied. Importantly, the power meter widget also shows you your current regenerative braking limitations; for example, when you charge your battery to 99% (which you should not do, but if), then your regenerative braking power is limited (because the battery can only charge slowly at that level) and disc brakes will kick in even during mild braking, which the power meter nicely shows.

If Tesla could have that^^^, that would be awesome.

What surprised me in this thread though: Is it really the case that when you use the brake pedal in a Tesla (say, dual motor Model 3), you are always applying the disc brakes? Isn’t there a “grey zone” of some sort in which the brake pedal intensifies regenerative braking, but doesn’t resort to friction yet?

(Disclaimer: I’m not a Tesla owner, I just love to rent them and have driven like 20000 km in various Model 3s. I’ve never explored the braking configuration in detail; what I can say though is that I like the Polestar 2 setup much more than Tesla’s “mandatory single pedal” idea.)

 

[drtimhill]

Clearly tesla saw the value of this feature and only removed it to help with corp positioning and epa reporting. This feature is available on almost every other make of EV, so blaming the driver for a feature that was included and is available on others is really pretty dishonest.

So purchase another makers EV? Not clear how its "dishonest" to not include a feature, regardless of what it is.

As for the OP, "regenerative braking was pretty aggressive" I think means "I took my foot off the accelerator like I do with an ICE car and it slowed down too fast", which is like saying "I slammed on the brake pedal and it stopped too quickly". The answer to both, of course, is "well, do it more gently". To put it another way, this is an example of "I got an EV and it was different to drive from my ICE car, so something is wrong with it!".

 

[zoomer0056]

I do not assume Tesla tested for it, because they are based in CA.

A LOT of rain coming down lately in CA. News media is reporting a lot of hydroplaning accidents. They didn't say but I bet they were all ICE cars.

 

[Dennisis]

Never to be seen again? Place your bets….

 

[GtiMart]

They haven't removed it on cars that were already sold, if that is what you're afraid of.

You should search the forums, this has been discussed multiple times. EDIT: Not necessarily in the Model Y subforum...

 

[Johnny Vector]

I have to agree with Big Earl. If you can control your foot well enough to accelerate smoothly, you can control it well enough to decelerate slowly.

Sure, you can continue to drive as if the car will coast if you lift your foot off the pedal entirely, and curse the car every time it doesn't do that. Or you can learn how to control a modern car.

 

[CorneliusRox]

A big game changer for me was when I realized the dotted lines next to the speedo were saying my throttle and regen braking was limited. Prior to that, I had no idea why it'd get inconsistent regen braking, and that made it really hard to smoothly control it.

All that being said, I wish I had the option to turn it off. I like it when driving by myself, but my wife and youngest son feel sick from it. I would happily sacrifice range for it. Honestly, I'd look into an aftermarket tune just to be able to remove this functionality. I just don't want to throw away my warranty over it.

 

[CorneliusRox]

A big game changer for me was when I realized the dotted lines next to the speedo were saying my throttle and regen braking was limited. Prior to that, I had no idea why it'd get inconsistent regen braking, and that made it really hard to smoothly control it.

All that being said, I wish I had the option to turn it off. I like it when driving by myself, but my wife and youngest son feel sick from it. I would happily sacrifice range for it. Honestly, I'd look into an aftermarket tune just to be able to remove this functionality. I just don't want to throw away my warranty over it.

I wonder if Tesla could get around the EPA stuff if they made it a 'paid upgrade'. So I have to pay $10 to unlock this feature or something arbitrary like that. Again, Tesla, if you're listening, I'd gladly pay $10!

 

[kingamoon]

Or you can learn how to control a modern car.

Lol. This response kind of reminds me of Steve Jobs' "you're holding it wrong" reply.

 

[kingamoon]

I wasn't aware that they removed this option in new cars until I placed my order. I don't think this will deter me from buying the car, but I rented the Y a few times, and the first option I disable is regen braking (model I rented still had that option). I have a road trip coming up where I'm renting the Y again, and this time I won't disable it. I suspect it's a matter of getting used to it kind of feature.