sakimano
Active Member
if it's a new AWD M5, it's just as quick as a P90D and much faster overall.
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Why I Won't Be Purchasing My 3rd Model S
- Thread starter mxb172
- Start date
if it's a new AWD M5, it's just as quick as a P90D and much faster overall.
sakimano
Active Member
there is no 'USA' power authority though, so US data is irrelevant.Since your location is "USA," it's only 30% coal.
He's from New Hampshire...which is worse for his argument. New Hampshire's electricity is only 7.4% coal sourced. Mostly Nuclear.
Energy Source Energy Production (Trillion BTU)
Nuclear 37.4 55.4%
Natural Gas 14.0 20.8%
Coal 5.0 7.4%
Hydro 4.9 7.2%
Biomass 4.5 6.6%
Wind 1.3 2.0%
Petroleum 0.4 0.5%
Total 67.5 100%
electrical
sakimano
Active Member
2020-2021 that will be available but the BMW/Audi/MB will likely still be weirdo one off electric cars.
By about 2025 they'll have the process down and costs of battery/drive down to the costs of their current fossil drivetrains and at that point they'll go full bore into electric vehicle production where you can buy an electric M5/RS7/E63 etc. The fast charging networks here and abroad will be fully built out by then as well. Will be interesting. Still a long way away. Tesla has this market to themselves for the next 5 years.
While Tesla is able to somehow pursue a financially awful business (current / short term) with altruistic goals largely supported by the stock market, the other automakers don't get away with losing billions. So they have to make it work financially first. That's why Porsche will charge a fortune for superfast charging a Mission E at their dealership networks once it launches...because they can't lose money and report to VW that they're doing nice things. Shareholders won't stand for it sadly.
milleron
Member
Sadly for OP, there's more to vehicle ownership and TCO than Apple Car Play and HUDs. I hope he's still convinced he made the right decision when comes time to replace oil, oil filter, spark plugs, fuel injectors, fuel filters, water pumps, timing belts, radiator coolant, AT fluid, oxygen sensors, catalytic convertors, mufflers, and much more general maintenance that doesn't come readily to mind. I hope he can take a lot of solace in his butt massage when all that's going on over the years.
sakimano
Active Member
Seeing as how he buys $130,000 cars new every 3 years, I think a few grand in maintenance will be handled just fine.
And for the record my P90D maintenance costs as much as any car I've ever owned.
Finally, doesn't an M5 come with 4 years of free maintenance?
I have ones question when was it that you test drove the the Audi? In 2018 Audi has caught and in many ways surpassed Tesla in the tech depart.
Watch this video and tell my I am wrong
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I actually have the exact same message. I have had the worst experience with the customer service at Tesla. I have never gotten an answer from then without at least asking twice. I have had them forget to order parts and lie to me. I could literally write a book about how incompetent everyone at TESLA Vancouver BC is.
You’re wrong. Mostly because this is a 2019 A8. It doesn’t have either the same straight line performance or the cargo capacity of the model s. Show me that same tech in an S7 package and we’ll talk, but even then that UI is the same awful looking UI from the 2018 models just with touchscreen.
The only vehicle Audi makes that’s more or less directly analogous to the model s is the S7, and it’s still on the old tech.
This is in no way meant to bash Audi as a company, but a counter story:
My local Audi dealership basically ignored me when I went in to drive the S7. It took me tracking down a salesman, having him put down Facebook (which he was *not* happy about), and then getting passed to 2 other salesmen before finally getting handed off to someone I suspect was either an intern or on their first few days.
The guy knew basically nothing about the car, and could not have cared less about selling it to me.
It wasn’t until the ride home that my wife pointed out the reason: my clothes. I’m in a cushy software job at a very large company, so my income is comparable to most doctors/lawyers/etc... but my wardrobe consists almost entirely of geek t-shirts and cargo shorts. While we were being ignored and I was checking out showroom cars, my wife noticed salesmen eagerly jumping up to greet the business wear clad customers.
Contrast this to Tesla in Highland Park, IL where I showed up for my appointment and was greeted warmly by the OA I’d been emailing. He happily showed me a demo car, and excitedly told me about all the neat features during our drive. He was never sales-y, but enthusiastic and obviously knowledgeable. At the end he asked if I wanted help placing an order and went over some payment options. When I said I still had a few cars to test he gave me his card and said he knew I would be back and to contact him. Confident but zero pressure.
Audi treated me like an annoyance who couldn’t possibly afford one of their cars. Tesla treated me like a customer.
My local Audi dealership basically ignored me when I went in to drive the S7. It took me tracking down a salesman, having him put down Facebook (which he was *not* happy about), and then getting passed to 2 other salesmen before finally getting handed off to someone I suspect was either an intern or on their first few days.
The guy knew basically nothing about the car, and could not have cared less about selling it to me.
It wasn’t until the ride home that my wife pointed out the reason: my clothes. I’m in a cushy software job at a very large company, so my income is comparable to most doctors/lawyers/etc... but my wardrobe consists almost entirely of geek t-shirts and cargo shorts. While we were being ignored and I was checking out showroom cars, my wife noticed salesmen eagerly jumping up to greet the business wear clad customers.
Contrast this to Tesla in Highland Park, IL where I showed up for my appointment and was greeted warmly by the OA I’d been emailing. He happily showed me a demo car, and excitedly told me about all the neat features during our drive. He was never sales-y, but enthusiastic and obviously knowledgeable. At the end he asked if I wanted help placing an order and went over some payment options. When I said I still had a few cars to test he gave me his card and said he knew I would be back and to contact him. Confident but zero pressure.
Audi treated me like an annoyance who couldn’t possibly afford one of their cars. Tesla treated me like a customer.
sakimano
Active Member
The A8/S8 performance is pretty much on par with the model S (not P100D to 60 but not far off) and they're a bit bigger actually. These are 202"long cars. Model S is about 196" I believe
And with respect to the S7, don't forget there's an RS7...and no it's not on 'the old tech'. An RS7 will produce over 600 hp and reach 60 mph in 2.9-3.1 seconds. With a $1600 ECU tune it will beat a model S P100D in most acceleration tests. I drove a tuned RS7, one of the old.model, to a 10.6@131 mph quarter mile about 5 years ago. Serious car.
The new RS7 is expected to be about 700 hp, and will match P100D acceleration bone stock , as near as makes no difference.
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A8 performance is not on par. S8 is, but the S8 w/ new tech stack isn't available for purchase yet and won't be until next year. Also it has no hatchback and significantly less cargo space. Yes, the RS7 exists, but it's also in a completely different price class than all but a P100D. And I'm pretty sure it's still running the old dash/infotainment with the BMW style knob control in the center console... that whole line hasn't been refreshed since the A7 first released a few years ago.
In three and one-half years of Tesla ownership, I've waited for a Supercharging slot once ... for five minutes.
That was at Tejon Ranch, which has since been expanded significantly, and joined by several major new Supercharger locations on I-5.
In that time, I've avoided roughly one hundred fifty stressful visits to the only local gas station that offers decent prices. Tricky to enter. Often have to wait for a pump ... and then fight aggressive line-jumpers. And, tricky to exit.
Has seemed like a more than fair trade!
That was at Tejon Ranch, which has since been expanded significantly, and joined by several major new Supercharger locations on I-5.
In that time, I've avoided roughly one hundred fifty stressful visits to the only local gas station that offers decent prices. Tricky to enter. Often have to wait for a pump ... and then fight aggressive line-jumpers. And, tricky to exit.
Has seemed like a more than fair trade!
To each their own (experience). I agree that Tesla has to up the ante with quality, materials and such in order to keep the Model S competitive. I had minor problems with my first Model S (front suspension rattle, groaning from the vents opening and closing) but otherwise problem free. My new one (2017) has had nary a problem.
Now, as for my last 2 BMWs (a 2001 330Xi - gas cap closure problems, front window lift failure, suspension, engine knock, ignition, emissions and various rattles; a 2008 535Xi Touring - orange peel paint, ignition (plus plugs and wires), telemetry module, rear suspension (air) failure, injectors (2 times over - they told me after the fact that I should use Shell gas because ethanol apparently destroys the ceramic coating), fuel pump, main processor, emissions, leaky sunroof, GPS, TPMS failure - all within 4 years. Oh, and a week+ to do a system update because the local server kept crashing. Both were fully maintained from the get go. Please don't tell me that BMW is any better at getting parts because it took months to get some of them in.
Before I bought the 2017 Tesla, I went into BMW and had a few discussions. I basically reminded myself of all the problems (most of which I agree were dealt with under warranty) but thoroughly pissed off the saleman who thought I would buy it. I'm glad I walked away. Best of luck to the OP.
Now, as for my last 2 BMWs (a 2001 330Xi - gas cap closure problems, front window lift failure, suspension, engine knock, ignition, emissions and various rattles; a 2008 535Xi Touring - orange peel paint, ignition (plus plugs and wires), telemetry module, rear suspension (air) failure, injectors (2 times over - they told me after the fact that I should use Shell gas because ethanol apparently destroys the ceramic coating), fuel pump, main processor, emissions, leaky sunroof, GPS, TPMS failure - all within 4 years. Oh, and a week+ to do a system update because the local server kept crashing. Both were fully maintained from the get go. Please don't tell me that BMW is any better at getting parts because it took months to get some of them in.
Before I bought the 2017 Tesla, I went into BMW and had a few discussions. I basically reminded myself of all the problems (most of which I agree were dealt with under warranty) but thoroughly pissed off the saleman who thought I would buy it. I'm glad I walked away. Best of luck to the OP.
is this true? whenever we take road trips there we never see any teslas prowling around like in bay area.
realllyyy.... ok, i'm going to go in my closed garage and turn on my car and sit in it for 30 minutes. you do the same and report back.
jeffro01
Active Member
I don't know how many times this has to be debunked but a EV IS ENVIRONMENTALLY MORE FRIENDLY THAN A ICE... It just is. It's that simple. When is this going to sink in for you?
Please, go ahead and lock yourself in your garage and run your ICE for 30 min to cool it down... You seem to be so convinced it's safe so what's the problem? Scared?
Jeff
sakimano
Active Member
Yes A8 performance IS on par with 75d/100d. S8 performance is on par with P100D in all but the first 30mph of acceleration, after which it is equal.
RS7 is a bargain compared to P100D and stacks up nicely with it performance wise. You're the one who said S7...then said it doesn't stack up. To what...a 75d?it will blow the doors off a 75d. It matches up nicely with a 100d.
A7 = 75d
S7 = 100d
RS7 = P100D
In every case the audi is significantly less expensive, and has the 'new tech' you crave. Not sure where you're going.
jeffro01
Active Member
Except it's still an Audi made by the same company that literally poisoned the atmosphere with egregious levels of NOx who then lied about it, covered it up, lied about it again... So if you want to give your money to VW Group then fine... Keep in mind what that says about you as a person in doing so...
Jeff
