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I think you are confusing AC vs DC charging.
An adapter between Tesla and J1772 AC charging is trivial because the pins and protocols are identical except for the physical plug design.
An adapter between Tesla and CCS is much more involved. CCS DC charging is the effectively the same regardless of USA type 1 CCS or European type 2 CCS plug format. The signaling protocols and messages are the same between the two CCS DC plug designs, I'm pretty sure.
Tesla's DC protocols are actually closer to CHAdeMO since they seem to use similar, but perhaps not identical, signaling that is based on the so-called CAN bus design that is typically used to network together internal computers and components even within conventional cars. However, Tesla does not seem to use the same CHAdeMO messaging between the car and the DC charger on top of CAN.
The CCS uses a completely different signaling system for DC charging called PLC and sends messages on that data transmission layer using the same tcp/ip protocols that the Internet is based on. The actual messages sent between the car and the DC charger are unique to CCS.
Heh. Uh, no, I'm not confusing AC and DC. But I was just repeating what I had read/heard from other sources--that Tesla's DC signaling was much more like CCS than CHAdeMO. Perhaps the sources I read were not right; I don't know for sure.
The CCS vs. Chademo delema was supposedly resolved in North America by charging station installers agreeing to only install dual standard stations with both CCS and Chademo plugs. Like many "peace treaties" it is possible not all of the parties will actually comply (VW and BMW, I am watching you!). 
In Europe the number of "CCS" only chargers seems to be growing.
Tesla has said years ago that they would consider making CCS adapters after it was clear there would be demand for them. As long as the chargers also have a Chademo plug, there is no need. Perhaps Tesla will make the European Type 2 CCS version first.
GSP
In Europe the number of "CCS" only chargers seems to be growing.
Tesla has said years ago that they would consider making CCS adapters after it was clear there would be demand for them. As long as the chargers also have a Chademo plug, there is no need. Perhaps Tesla will make the European Type 2 CCS version first.
GSP
The CCS is much more complex than CHAdeMO because the signal control for CCS is AC, requiring a new communications process, whereas the CHAdeMO uses the CANbus, so is compatible without major changes.
There is a thread specific to CharIN that explains more and gives links to even more than that:
CharIN and CCS, CHAdeMO,
Boatguy
Active Member
Absolutely!
Tesla will never have an SC everywhere and in 3-5yrs there will be a flood of cars from Germany using the CCS standard. The standard supports up to 200kW today (up to 350kW in the future), comparable to an SC, though most installations are currently more like 50kW. The connector is much less elegant than the Tesla connector, and when I've used them it's like hauling a fire hose to the car (my i3), but they charge the battery and that's the point.
Giving Tesla owners, and prospective owners, more places to charge can only benefit the company.
Tesla will never have an SC everywhere and in 3-5yrs there will be a flood of cars from Germany using the CCS standard. The standard supports up to 200kW today (up to 350kW in the future), comparable to an SC, though most installations are currently more like 50kW. The connector is much less elegant than the Tesla connector, and when I've used them it's like hauling a fire hose to the car (my i3), but they charge the battery and that's the point.
Giving Tesla owners, and prospective owners, more places to charge can only benefit the company.
We can be sure it will happen, the question is when. Tesla is a full member of CharIN and alreadfy supports the Mennekes+ for European Teslas. They will certainly not make an adapter for NA until they figure out the electrical modifications required and can be assured of enough owner interest to justofy teh non-trivial development needed. My guess is that they'll do it as soon as CCS becomes more widely used and the power goes up. That should happen in a couple of years as more European electric cars begin to arrive in North America.
Gizmotoy
Active Member
Interesting. I'd heard the same as the others: that CCS was built on the signalling protocol standardized by J1772, with extensions provided to control the rate of charge and charging capacity of the DC pins. Really unusual that they'd tack DC onto J1772 and completely change the communication protocol.
Still, learned something new today.
Funny thing about the CCS connector is that they are rated at 200A. To have 150kW chargers means 800 volt battery packs. And 800 volt packs means expensive semiconductors for the whole drivetrain. I think we have to wait a long time to see CCS chargers with more than 75kW as the whole EV marked runs on 400 volt packs. Could be nice to charge from these units as we do from Chademo, but don't expect supercharger capabilities.
IIRC, there are already 120kWh CCS prototype stations.
Opens 120 kW EV charger to the public | Arctic Roads
The only way 120kW CCS is going to spread quickly is if Tesla supports it. There are no 120kW capable CCS cars.
Opens 120 kW EV charger to the public | Arctic Roads
The only way 120kW CCS is going to spread quickly is if Tesla supports it. There are no 120kW capable CCS cars.
There are a couple of these 120 kW units here in Norway. The problem is that neither the Chademo or the CCS connector is capable of handling full power. The only benefit is that a Chademo and CCS car can charge at the same time. The only way to make a single car charge at maximum rate is to add a Tesla connector to it.
Tesla does already support it via Full Membership in CharIN. BTW, although SAE J1772 is the CCS core in North America it is the Mennekes 2 in Europe, the base connector for European Tesla Superchargers. Tesla uses a proprietary pin modification to use for Superchargers. The Tesla connected there can be used for other Mennekes 2 charging with adapters, but adapters are need in those areas that used different phases than is typical. I'll skip the details, they're covered elsewhere in excruciating detail. However, once there are CCS EV's that need fast charging CCS can easily be upgraded to existing Supercharger speeds. That will be around 2020 as MB and VW Group begin to deliver high volumes of EV's in NA. BMW might be in that group too, depending on internal debates now happening.
It is odd that the higher CCS power handling standard has been so slow, probably because only Tesla might use it today. In the meantime Norway will be ready for all those MW, VW Group, etc that will come beginning in 2020 or so. I cannot wait.
A quick fix to double power with same conductor is to double the voltage. That's why we have high voltage lines to transfer energy long distance. Neither Chademo or CCS can do more that 200A without water cooling etc. It means 80kW@400 volt. CCS is rated for 1000 volts. 1000 volts times 200A is 200kW. Adding water cooling to CCS might give 350A and a overwhelming 350kW transfer.
Looks good on papers but useless for any car today or near future.
Better to focus at the amperage than power for any connector as voltage can mislead you.
Even a simple household socket can do some hundred kW if the voltage is high enough.
Looks good on papers but useless for any car today or near future.
Better to focus at the amperage than power for any connector as voltage can mislead you.
Even a simple household socket can do some hundred kW if the voltage is high enough.
If my understanding is correct, your ordering is wrong.
I think it is: Supercharger > CCS > Chademo(50kw per nissan) > HPWC > L2 > L1
Basically, it looks like CCS is going to be the final winner in the nationwide fast charging network. Pity, since the Tesla connector is so much more elegent.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
He clarified later on in another post. His "better than" is taking into account of ease of use, convenience, cost, and availability. Speed is just one factor.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1715922/
The other issue is _power_.
The CCS standard now allows for more powerful chargers, and at least for the next couple of years, the most important CCS car will be the Bolt. Until they know what's going to happen to the chargers, Tesla won't know what power level an adapter should support.
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