Winter Tires - Michelin X-Ice Xi3 vs. Nokian Hakka R2

[mknox]

One of the 'complaints' I have heard about the R2's is that they are "squishy" and not very good on dry pavement and at speeds. Did you experience any of that?

Not at all. I have an 80 mile round trip commute which is about 85% freeway. I am driving against the typical commuting pattern, so most of that trip is at speed. The tires were excellent in all conditions. I have heard that the H2's aren't as good in wet conditions, but didn't have any problem there either. With the amount of road salt, the roads are frequently wet/slushy in the winter here. Now I'll just add that I have 19" Goodyear summers and my comparisons are against those. They may very well feel "squishy" to you coming from the performance 21's, but I don't believe they are any more "squishy" than any other 19" winter tire.

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He strongly recommended the Michelins as he stated that they found the Nokians to be a difficult tire to work with and to balance correctly.

Exact opposite experience with my tire guy. He highly recommended the Nokians and had no problem whatsoever installing and balancing. I had him remove the summer tires from my stock Tesla rims and install them on those. Over the winter, I bought Rial Luganos to re-mount my summer rubber on to.

 

[kevincwelch]

Exact opposite experience with my tire guy. He highly recommended the Nokians and had no problem whatsoever installing and balancing. I had him remove the summer tires from my stock Tesla rims and install them on those. Over the winter, I bought Rial Luganos to re-mount my summer rubber on to.

Funny what people's experiences are. My Rials/Xi3s had to be balanced twice before getting them right! After that, vibrations stopped and the ride was smooth.

Based on what I've read, I don't think you can go wrong with either the Xi3 or the Nokians.

 

[dsm363]

That's certainly what it sounds like. Either tire is a winner and a huge improvement over Soto IIs.

 

[jerry33]

One of the 'complaints' I have heard about the R2's is that they are "squishy" and not very good on dry pavement and at speeds. Did you experience any of that? The R2's are what I am leaning towards (partly overall top winter reviews, partly current availability) but what is stopping me from pulling the trigger is this supposed less than stellar dry pavement performance that the Michelin seems better at.

One of the attributes of a good snow tire is that the casing is flexible so that it can envelope around road irregularities (such as the transition from hard pack to pavement) and provide better traction. To do this the casing is made more flexible. I suspect if you add between two and four psi to the rear tires the squishy feeling will go away.

Both the Xi3 and the R2 are good snow tires. I wouldn't hesitate to put on either.

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He strongly recommended the Michelins as he stated that they found the Nokians to be a difficult tire to work with and to balance correctly.

Having had several sets of both Michelin and Nokian tires over the years, I can't say that either one is more difficult to work with. I've never had a balance problem with either. I suspect that his recommendation has more to do with margin then with technical details, or else his tire mounting technique isn't what it could be.

 

[rapoport3a]

Then there are the Nokian WRG3 tires, fairly new but replacing the G2, which have been around some time. They're all-weather rather than all-season, slightly less of a winter/snow tire than the R2. Yes, people may say they want no compromises, and for them having two sets of rims and tires may make sense. I don't want two sets of rims if I can avoid them, so I plan on mounting the WRG3s and driving on them all the time, in a locale with plenty of snow and cold (0/-18) but temperatures up to 90/32 as well. They have low rolling resistance, and their record on other cars is very good.

The WRG3 tires are hard to find after the season's orders have come in. So I'm ordering 5. I don't know what I'll do if two become unrepairable.

Bit of an experiment; I've not found anyone else here who's done that, and the coming winter will be my first with this car. Wish me luck.

 

[jerry33]

Then there are the Nokian WRG3 tires, fairly new but replacing the G2, which have been around some time. They're all-weather rather than all-season, slightly less of a winter/snow tire than the R2. Yes, people may say they want no compromises, and for them having two sets of rims and tires may make sense. I don't want two sets of rims if I can avoid them, so I plan on mounting the WRG3s and driving on them all the time, in a locale with plenty of snow and cold (0/-18) but temperatures up to 90/32 as well. They have low rolling resistance, and their record on other cars is very good.

The WRG3 tires are hard to find after the season's orders have come in. So I'm ordering 5. I don't know what I'll do if two become unrepairable.

Bit of an experiment; I've not found anyone else here who's done that, and the coming winter will be my first with this car. Wish me luck.

1. Tire manufacturers keep a few tires in "adjustment stock" so that they can replace a tire even when they're technically sold out.

2. I've used the WR and WR-g2. I wouldn't hesitate to use the g3. They are ideal for someone who wears out a set of tires in a year. You put them on every fall and have great winter traction, and they don't melt in the summer. No, they won't win on race day, but for normal driving they are just fine. Only a couple of winter tires (like the R2 and xI3) have better traction than the WRs.

 

[Newscutter]

I only see the Mich on TireRack for $276/per (shipped).

The Nokian, oddly enough, show as IN STOCK at a local dealer for $231/per AND they say:


PRICE INCLUDES - Mounting * New Rubber Valve Stem (Non-TPMS) * Old Tire Disposal * Lifetime Tire Rotation * Lifetime Computer Spin Balancing * Wheel Alignment Check (By Appointment) * Plus Tax. See store for complete details.


Good deal?? I'd just need TPMS. Not sure if the local shop can get Tesla-compatible TPMS.

 

[dsm363]

Tirerack sells Tesla compatible TPMS sensors I believe. Can also buy them from Tesla too.

 

[mknox]

Tirerack sells Tesla compatible TPMS sensors I believe.

They do, and they work flawlessly.

 

[eclipsis]

Just to confirm, is this the tire I would need for the stock 19s?

 

[WTFRUNK]

I only see the Mich on TireRack for $276/per (shipped).

The Nokian, oddly enough, show as IN STOCK at a local dealer for $231/per AND they say:


PRICE INCLUDES - Mounting * New Rubber Valve Stem (Non-TPMS) * Old Tire Disposal * Lifetime Tire Rotation * Lifetime Computer Spin Balancing * Wheel Alignment Check (By Appointment) * Plus Tax. See store for complete details.


Good deal?? I'd just need TPMS. Not sure if the local shop can get Tesla-compatible TPMS.

That is a good price from everything I have seen. TireRack doesn't carry Nokians. TireRack didn't have the 245/45/19s in stock when I looked for the Michelin Xi3s.

 

[DGates]

I too would like to get on this so I don't end up without tires this winter. Last year I managed fine on the Michelin Primacy tires that came with the car but there were two or three days with snow on the ground that I didn't drive. Tried to and got stuck in the alley right behind the garage and had to shovel my way out and back into the garage until the snow was gone a few days later.

Any thoughts on which is better for Vancouver / Pacific Northwest winters? Pretty much lots of rain, a few weeks of temperatures slightly above freezing, maybe a week or two of some snow in the city and a few trips up to Whistler where the real winter is.

I'm leaning toward the Hakka R2 but would like to hear from anyone in Seattle / Vancouver area that has any recommendations.

 

[mknox]

I too would like to get on this so I don't end up without tires this winter.

My advice: Do it now. I went in to Kal Tire around this time last year and was told not to worry about it and come back in the fall. When I went back in September, I was told the whole year's inventory was sold out, but the manager there remembered me and pulled out all the stops to arrange to get me some shipped from Finland (or wherever they come from). They arrived and were installed in mid-November. Fortunately, we had no appreciable snow up to then, but it actually started to snow furiously right when my car was having the tires mounted. Talk about cutting it close!

 

[Morristhecat]

Any thoughts on which is better for Vancouver / Pacific Northwest winters? Pretty much lots of rain, a few weeks of temperatures slightly above freezing, maybe a week or two of some snow in the city and a few trips up to Whistler where the real winter is.

I got the Xi3's on Rials last year from a local tuner shop in Richmond that gets tire rack stuff. I chose them because they scored well in rain and wet snow, which we get. I thought they performed really well, and used them on those few days if snow last year. Rock solid. I also have a lane behind my place, on a steep hill - no problem climbing it or going down in wet snow.

 

[mknox]

I got the Xi3's on Rials last year from a local tuner shop in Richmond that gets tire rack stuff. I chose them because they scored well in rain and wet snow, which we get.

Yep. The R2's don't score as well in wet, so for you Lower Mainland folks, the Xi3's may be the better option.

 

[DGates]

Yep. The R2's don't score as well in wet, so for you Lower Mainland folks, the Xi3's may be the better option.

OK. Should I expect that they will be fine for a few trips up to Whistler where it's proper winter weather?

 

[santana338]

@mknox: Have you noticed any issues with the H2s in wet weather? Is the score difference noticeable or are we talking about just a minor difference? I'm in NH and a newby to snow driving.

I missed getting snows last year so I want to be on top of it this year. My local tire dealer has the H2 for $275 each, but does not have the Xi3 yet. I don't know about the Xi3 pricing either.

 

[mknox]

@mknox: Have you noticed any issues with the H2s in wet weather? Is the score difference noticeable or are we talking about just a minor difference? I'm in NH and a newby to snow driving.

Nope. They seemed just fine to me. I drive on a lot of salt-laden roads (read wet/slushy in winter) and I had no issues at all. They are superb on snow, hard-pack and ice as well. I was simply acknowledging that the ratings do show them to score a little less in that area.

 

[rekoh]

let's start posting where the best deals are for both!

 

[Newscutter]

Curious:

If I have winter tires mounted up on my TST wheels, with TPMS, etc.

Can I verify the new TPMS are working WITHOUT actually attaching the winter set to the car? Or do I have to move the factory TPMS-equipped wheels out of range of the car for the new ones to be recognized?

I'm planning to get the TireRack TPMS (cheaper than Tesla) and want to make sure they are working properly before I have to count on them... and July is a little early for snow tires.