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$12K for FSD is insane
- Thread starter bjrosen
- Start date
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
So...they "fixed" it in Mid-2018, but a year later reports continued to be so bad NHTSA opened another investigation?
Nissan Rogue Braking Issue Prompts NHTSA Investigation
Nissan Rogue braking issue prompts NHTSA investigation into 675,000 SUVs over complaints that the automatic emergency braking (AEB) system engaged with no apparent obstruction in the vehicle’s path.
www.consumerreports.org
I think Nissan/Mitsu, others dont get nearly as much attention because of one main factor: Their CEO's have not/are not stating that by end of 2019, you will be able to summon those cars from NYC to LA with no human intervention. They also arent blatantly lying by saying a Robotaxi service (that will generate 6 figure incomes for their owners) will be up and fully running by Dec 2019 (or was it 2018? So many lies its hard to keep track)
The press/media/human beings are like "wait a second..how can we have Teslas driving around with NO ONE inside, if these things are running up onto curbs in "smart summon", crossing over double yellow lines on divided highways, and doing emergency braking each time they see a shadow. " So of course such wild claims are also going to get you attention when your technology supporting those claims, is failing.
a Model S is more afraid of a shadow than my dog is.
The press/media/human beings are like "wait a second..how can we have Teslas driving around with NO ONE inside, if these things are running up onto curbs in "smart summon", crossing over double yellow lines on divided highways, and doing emergency braking each time they see a shadow. " So of course such wild claims are also going to get you attention when your technology supporting those claims, is failing.
a Model S is more afraid of a shadow than my dog is.
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They rolled out the update in mid-2018 but it sounds like it wasn't taken up by enough of the fleet, so they initiated a "voluntary service campaign" in 2019 to increase awareness of the update and bring in more owners. I haven't looked into the 85 documents from the first closed investigation, what I'm referencing is the open investigation with the latest update on 16-Jun-2020.So...they "fixed" it in Mid-2018, but a year later reports continued to be so bad NHTSA opened another investigation?
Nissan Rogue Braking Issue Prompts NHTSA Investigation
Nissan Rogue braking issue prompts NHTSA investigation into 675,000 SUVs over complaints that the automatic emergency braking (AEB) system engaged with no apparent obstruction in the vehicle’s path.www.consumerreports.org
This is a definite benefit of OTA updates, because Nissan's fix requires bringing in the vehicles and there are surely still many of these Nissan's driving around that haven't been updated.
I'm not quite sure why there are two separate investigations because the first one is dated April 8, 2019 - September 16, 2019 and the second investigation is overlapped from September 9, 2019 - Present.
COS Blue
Member
Colbert had a good idea on Thursday night's show. He mentioned the recall because the vehicle "may disobey stop signs." He then mentioned the surge in phantom braking, where "Teslas are unexpectedly slamming on their brakes in response to imagined hazards." His solution: "Just get your car to imagine a stop sign. Solved!"
The problem of course is you have no idea if it WILL do emergency braking. It's pretty easy for a car maker to avoid PB (that is, false positives) .. they just dial-down the detection thresholds etc. But of course, that means you are more likely to get false negatives (the system failing to brake when it should).
dbldwn02
Active Member
or 
dbldwn02
Active Member
CR can say whatever they want.
All I know is, Mitsubishi passes the wife test and Tesla TACC does not. To most men, that's all that matters.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
LOL. As usual you have no idea what you are talking about ...
Nissan was claiming 5 years back they will have autonomous cars by now. Infact the then CEO Ghosn, even did a "demo" drive with the Prime Minister of Japan - no less- of a AV more than 5 years back. Ofcourse that CEO - unlike Elon - is in hiding in Lebanon now after skipping bail in Japan in a daring escape.
They have been talking about handsfree Nissan ProPilot for a long time ... infact it is available in Japan and was delayed in US.
Wiki - Consumer AV - Status Tracking Thread
This thread is to track the progress of Consumer AVs - from ADAS to full self-driving. I'll keep this info updated. Let me know if you have any updates & corrections.
teslamotorsclub.com
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Whereas my wife loves Teslas system, has had no issues with it, and plans to buy one whenever her current SUV dies
And that seems a lot more common than your case.
I mean, overall US sales numbers are one obvious example...
but also owner satisfaction.
Tesla rates #1 among all car brands at both JD Power and Consumer Reports. Though to be fair neither even rates Mitsubishi because they don't sell enough vehicles to get useful survey results. Still, Nissan, whose driving system they apparently copied, ranks near the bottom with CR, they do better with JDP but still well below Tesla.
So it seems in general Tesla owners are happier with their vehicles than...anybody else.
For example owner satisfaction.... Tesla rates #1 among all car brands at both JD Power and Consumer Reports. Though to be fair neither even rates Mitsubishi because they don't sell enough vehicles to get useful survey results. Still, Nissan, whose driving system they apparently copied, ranks near the bottom with CR, they do better with JDP but still well below Tesla.
So it seems in general Tesla owners are happier with their vehicles than...anybody else.
I dont think anyone is arguing Teslas sales success, demand for their (very fast) vehicles, supercharger network, etc.
What people cant stand is a deceitful leader, whose word means nothing, and whose product is riddled with phantom braking problems that have gotten worse, not better, over time.
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What you can't stand, you mean of course. And it seems to me that pretty much everything he's set out to deliver he has delivered on. Mass-produced EVs, a supercharger network, battery factories, car factories, breakthroughs in range, charging speed, autonomy etc etc etc. Not to mention SpaceX and all they have achieved.
But the car very occasionally brakes unexpectedly, for a small number of people, when they are using TACC at its limits .. and Elons words "mean nothing" and he is "deceitful".
Oh, and by what measure has it "gotten worse" ?
Your welcome..
Tesla Bots may be the latest in a long line of Elon Musk claims that haven't come to fruition
The billionaire has a track record of making outrageous claims and predictions that have not come to fruition.
news.sky.com
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I don't think there is a need for denigration here. Clearly Tesla is doing something very impressive on FSD. Especially since they moved to just vision. Just as clearly there is a long way to go and EM grossly underestimated the difficulty in delivering. Just as he has on the Solar Roof. EM clearly over promises and does so chronically and not that he doesn't get there, it's amazing what is happening.
All the following can be true:
EM overstates timelines or rather underestimates time required
Tesla failed to deliver a capability on time
People bought something that could not be delivered
Tesla is making huge strides in delivering an amazing service
Progress has been accelerating over last 2 years
Hardware might require a significant upgrade-computers and maybe cameras (2 more ?)
Final L4/5 is still a few years away at best
All can be true. No need to make excuses for EM. He's a big boy. No need to denigrate FSD, it seems to be accelerating at a tremendous pace. No need to shirk from the realization that hardware may still be insufficient and that the software will have to be re-written yet again and then validated and tested. We are still likely years away and that's ok. Anyone plopping $5-12k for a feature that does not exist is not someone waiting on a paycheck to cover childcare expenses and a rent payment. Should a poor person pay an extra $12k for FSD today? NO, wait and buy a subscription. Put the money into Tesla stock. Far better use of funds.
All the following can be true:
EM overstates timelines or rather underestimates time required
Tesla failed to deliver a capability on time
People bought something that could not be delivered
Tesla is making huge strides in delivering an amazing service
Progress has been accelerating over last 2 years
Hardware might require a significant upgrade-computers and maybe cameras (2 more ?)
Final L4/5 is still a few years away at best
All can be true. No need to make excuses for EM. He's a big boy. No need to denigrate FSD, it seems to be accelerating at a tremendous pace. No need to shirk from the realization that hardware may still be insufficient and that the software will have to be re-written yet again and then validated and tested. We are still likely years away and that's ok. Anyone plopping $5-12k for a feature that does not exist is not someone waiting on a paycheck to cover childcare expenses and a rent payment. Should a poor person pay an extra $12k for FSD today? NO, wait and buy a subscription. Put the money into Tesla stock. Far better use of funds.
So lack of radar use, is the excuse for the phantom braking. None of the cars reporting phantom braking are using Radar..just vision.
Is that your final answer as you line the pins up?
Cuz I have the bowling ball ready...
ok so what it is you want? The FSD stack, even in beta form, goes a long way to solving phantom braking because it has to as part of its raison d'être. By the time it ships it's likely that PB events will be in the noise floor (and probably most won't be PB, they will be real but the human driver was just unaware of the actual cause). And no, you're not going to get dumb CC because Tesla's solution itsnt to dumb-down, its to smarten up, like it or not.
If TACC is that bad for you, then sell your car! You will get a GREAT price for it right now, and you can go and enjoy an ID.4, or any other EV that doesn't, of course, have any problems at all.
So, nothing to see here. Time to move on. Or do you just like complaining for recreational purposes?
dbldwn02
Active Member
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
The survey they "plunged" in was not owner satisfaction--- so the fact you posted it in reply to my mentioning being #1 in owner satisfaction means you either didn't actually read past the headline of your own story- or you're being intentionally dishonest.
Which is it?
dbldwn02
Active Member
Just the beginning. You know what else beat the MS/X in customer satisfaction...a Kia. So I don't put much weight in this cult style community where the majority of the cars sold were only built in the past 3 years. Give out of warranty owners the same satisfaction survey...
The writing is on the wall with full self destruction.
Writing radar out of the code and still charging $12k?
2016-2019 FSD description
Tesla Uber
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