Agreed. I also like not hearing it when the bypass is pressed when driving by my house. (I think I should send in feedback on that.)
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Anyone refusing last software update - speed limit restriction?
- Thread starter David_Cary
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- Model S
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Speed limits are assigned by class of roads. This can be changed if they do an Engineering and Traffic Study (E&TS in California). They generally set the speed limit at 85th percentile speed (i.e. one standard deviation above average speed).
Interesting bits:
The basic speed law is found in CVC Section 22350. It reads: “No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.”
Roadway safety is the primary consideration in establishing speed limits. Although not an exhaustive list, the following factors affecting roadway safety should be evaluated when establishing regulatory speeds: x Advisory Speeds x Hidden driveways and other roadside developments x High driveway density x Collision history within the zone x Shoulder width and condition
JeffK
Well-Known Member
It's kind of misleading to post only that section of the law...
For anyone just popping in the thread, in context it means speed limit is the max... but you can get pulled over for speeding even if going under the speed limit if it's deemed unsafe for conditions as @mspohr mentioned.
Codes Display Text.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Feel free to post the entire CVC.
You are correct that you can be cited for "speeding" even when going less than the posted speed. I wonder how AP will adjust for that?
All who are upset: call Tesla and insist on getting a call back from a regional manager. A phone supervisor and/or anyone at your local service center won't be able to give feedback as directly (in my experience). They need to know your concerns.
I use AP to add a layer of safety to my driving. I pay attention and keep my hands on the wheel. With this new speed restriction I can't use it because *most all people* on the road go a little faster than posted speeds.
Reciting laws doesn't help me when I'm trying to be safe with AP on and am getting honked at and/or rear ended by everyone else on the road.
I use AP to add a layer of safety to my driving. I pay attention and keep my hands on the wheel. With this new speed restriction I can't use it because *most all people* on the road go a little faster than posted speeds.
Reciting laws doesn't help me when I'm trying to be safe with AP on and am getting honked at and/or rear ended by everyone else on the road.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure AP can adjust for a cop's judgement. It all seems a bit subjective. I guess if AP knows what speed it can maintain full control and with what maneuvers then it would serve as an objective measurement of conditions. Then there's always the subject of black ice....
What you're citing is a society issue. We make laws that virtually no one follows.
To coexist with self driving cars, we're either going to have to make legal exceptions for the computers or society must change. Maybe there's some middle ground there but then who is responsible in case of an accident in the future if the owner can override speed laws and it's deemed that speed was a factor... There's a lot we're going to have to work out over the next few years.
Autopilot isn't self-driving but I'm sure we'll see an update address this issue within a few weeks.
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mspohr
Well-Known Member
It's stupid to be debating the fine points of Motor Vehicle law. The point is when you're driving and you are the lead clown in a parade it's dangerous. We are responsible for the operation of our cars, not Tesla.
Today, I stumbled upon the setting to make the "ding" come back. It is now a checklist option on the settings tab, defaults to off but you can set it to ding when opening/closing the garage door.
Model S M.D.
Ludicrous Radiologist
Correct, it's a setting under homelink, a check box to ding when homelink activates. I forget the reason why, but this setting gets randomly unchecked from time to time...
I have also refused the most recent updates. I use AP on a few undivided roads to work. In Texas virtually nobody drives the speed limit!
deonb
Active Member
So here is a bit of civil disobedience that you can practice that is sure to gather a response on this topic from Tesla:
a) Get 3 fellow Tesla owners people to participate on e.g. a 3-lane highway.
b) Go to a stretch of highway where there is a lot of traffic driving faster than the speed limit on average, and not a lot of onramps. The faster the average speed over the limit, the better.
c) Pull the 3 cars right next to each other (one in each lane) and engage AP, which will of course hold the speed limit.
d) After a few minutes you should have a mile of completely unused highway ahead of you and a few miles of traffic behind you... which would make for a great aerial shot.
e) Have a few people with drones stand by on the side of the road to record this, and send the footage to your local TV station and eventually the news report to Tesla.
NOTE: This is called a rolling blockade and is illegal. It's going to get you pulled over pretty quickly & fined for impeding traffic flow. Some kids did this in Canada in the 90's - and similarly in Atlanta in 2006 to protest ridiculously slow speed limits. But the fine is not a bad thing - send it to Tesla, or start a GoFundMe campaign and thankful other owners will chip in to pay it. You can probably also get a court to dismiss it with a good lawyer.
From a moral perspective about dragging in innocent other motorists - you're not just protesting Tesla (or NHTSA) - you're even more so protesting the unreasonable speed limit.
From: A Meditation on the Speed Limit (2006)
I would join, but I don't have AP. I can do a Drone recording though if someone wants to do this in WA (but probably not the best state for this - people in WA famously don't drive like they have anywhere to be).
a) Get 3 fellow Tesla owners people to participate on e.g. a 3-lane highway.
b) Go to a stretch of highway where there is a lot of traffic driving faster than the speed limit on average, and not a lot of onramps. The faster the average speed over the limit, the better.
c) Pull the 3 cars right next to each other (one in each lane) and engage AP, which will of course hold the speed limit.
d) After a few minutes you should have a mile of completely unused highway ahead of you and a few miles of traffic behind you... which would make for a great aerial shot.
e) Have a few people with drones stand by on the side of the road to record this, and send the footage to your local TV station and eventually the news report to Tesla.
NOTE: This is called a rolling blockade and is illegal. It's going to get you pulled over pretty quickly & fined for impeding traffic flow. Some kids did this in Canada in the 90's - and similarly in Atlanta in 2006 to protest ridiculously slow speed limits. But the fine is not a bad thing - send it to Tesla, or start a GoFundMe campaign and thankful other owners will chip in to pay it. You can probably also get a court to dismiss it with a good lawyer.
From a moral perspective about dragging in innocent other motorists - you're not just protesting Tesla (or NHTSA) - you're even more so protesting the unreasonable speed limit.
From: A Meditation on the Speed Limit (2006)
I would join, but I don't have AP. I can do a Drone recording though if someone wants to do this in WA (but probably not the best state for this - people in WA famously don't drive like they have anywhere to be).
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lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
It amazes me that we raise children to even think it is possible to line up multiple cars and purposefully block others.
Add a little pent up hatred (perhaps from a divisive election and some income inequality) to the mix for the stunt you are suggesting and you may find that some "second amendment types" fix the problem of several $50K cars blocking traffic. If they do, what they do would be highly illegal but it would also be "highly" your own fault.
Stunts like the above remind me of that condom commercial with the little kid having a temper tantrum in the middle of the grocery store isle.
Add a little pent up hatred (perhaps from a divisive election and some income inequality) to the mix for the stunt you are suggesting and you may find that some "second amendment types" fix the problem of several $50K cars blocking traffic. If they do, what they do would be highly illegal but it would also be "highly" your own fault.
Stunts like the above remind me of that condom commercial with the little kid having a temper tantrum in the middle of the grocery store isle.
deonb
Active Member
Why? As far as they are concerned you're just protesting the speed limit, and you're doing it with flashy vehicles that you know will get a lot of press.
Only Tesla circle will truly understand that you're in fact protesting the fact that Tesla obeys it.
A single accident caused by someone getting annoyed with an obeying Tesla AP and overtaking it unsafely will cause a LOT more holdup to people than a protest that lasts at most 10 minutes and which will really only delay people for about ~2 minutes (the delta between the speed limit and what they could have been driving at for those 10 minutes).
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lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
and the amazement continues...... What makes you think you are entitled to make your concern someone else's annoyance just so you can get the attention you want?
Amazing that you even point out just how much attention the accident the stunt you are proposing is likely to precipitate. Scary. You can foresee it and still think it is a good idea.
Dislike all you want folks..... I'm perfectly happy to be on this side of this conversation irrespective of the dislike count. My mind is open to reasonable argument. Why do you feel it is a good idea to purposefully irritate people you do not know and create an unsafe condition so you can draw attention to the Autopilot functionality in your very expensive car?
Amazing that you even point out just how much attention the accident the stunt you are proposing is likely to precipitate. Scary. You can foresee it and still think it is a good idea.
Dislike all you want folks..... I'm perfectly happy to be on this side of this conversation irrespective of the dislike count. My mind is open to reasonable argument. Why do you feel it is a good idea to purposefully irritate people you do not know and create an unsafe condition so you can draw attention to the Autopilot functionality in your very expensive car?
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sillydriver
Member
I agree with Lola. Out in the country where I live I feel fortunate that people generally have a positive attitude about my rich man's toy. I don't want bad press to change that to hostility over spoiled brats who complain their self-driving cars don't go fast enough.
I behave with Tesla as I would do with my children .
When they make a mistake I tell them and ask them to put back the things right.
They dont have the infos to decide of the right speed
Dont you do the same when you see things going the wrong way ?
Isn't civil, and Tesla isn't civic. Even if such a demonstration had merit, it shouldn't come before a letter to the company, a tweet to Elon, a statement with examples from your local owners club, and numerous other civil approaches. Have you planned to orchestrate any of those yet?
