Car & Driver: The Mach E is simply better than the Model Y

[tangible1]

How ever you want to say it is fine with me but the reality is that the utilities in California are making billions so the fact they did not take care of their infrastructure is why in this state in 2017 we had massive fires do to the above. Monopolies out of control with no oversite.

electric utility companies are getting billions in revenue, yes. but not profits.
all their investment activities are being politically directed, with a chaos of negative results - wildfires due to neglected line maintenance, brownouts, etc.
all due to political misdirection and meddling.
what once was a model of utility management got taken over by those treating it as a piggybank and test kitchen for social engineering.

blaming utilities is just being a parrot of media tropes. brought to you by the very politicians that have created the problems.

I'm not saying a migration to greener energy isn't a noble goal.
but forcing it is a mistake, and the costs will multiply the problems, making political chaos a certainty.
the future is less, not more stability in our utilities and society.

don't get trapped into the belief that because you think you're the in 'the vanguard of green' that you are being righteous.
but you are being fashionable.

 

[DrGriz]

electric utility companies are getting billions in revenue, yes. but not profits.
all their investment activities are being politically directed, with a chaos of negative results - wildfires due to neglected line maintenance, brownouts, etc.
all due to political misdirection and meddling.
what once was a model of utility management got taken over by those treating it as a piggybank and test kitchen for social engineering.

blaming utilities is just being a parrot of media tropes. brought to you by the very politicians that have created the problems.

I'm not saying a migration to greener energy isn't a noble goal.
but forcing it is a mistake, and the costs will multiply the problems, making political chaos a certainty.
the future is less, not more stability in our utilities and society.

don't get trapped into the belief that because you think you're the in 'the vanguard of green' that you are being righteous.
but you are being fashionable.

Agree that honey catches more flies than vinegar.

 

[alexgr]

Representative Thomas Massie (who is also an MIT EE grad) says we are relying on political science rather the engineering regarding our current green energy goals. Were his comments off base during this interview 9 months ago:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550282224326639616

This is called intentional misinformation of public. Let me unpack.
There are two major claims: (1) the EVs will consume more energy than air conditioners. and (2) The electricity generation and delivery system will be overwhelmed by EVs.
(1) The ACs are used for limited number of months and their use heavily depends on your location. Where I live in Oklahoma, my 2 EVs use energy in the range of 0.6-0.9 MWh a month. This is infinitely more than the ACs use in January, duh. In July-August, however, my ACs can easily consume 1.5-2.0 MWh in a month with overall consumption of well over 3 MWh.

(2) So, speaking of the grid capacity, the politician uses AVERAGE AC use as a reference to claim the system overload. However, an example of ethical behavior as an engineer would be to use the PEAK AC use. As you can see from the graph above, my cars are consuming less than 25% of my overall peak usage. Interestingly, this is about the same additional fraction of the total electricity produced that would be required to convert ALL vehicles in the US to electricity. That conversion will take years and more than one president. Most likely, the efficiency of the houses, ACs, the reduction in oil refinery needs, etc. will lead to electricity usage savings that would offset some demand increase due to EVs.

Thank you, we should use this Thomas the MIT grad as an example of unethical behavior when educating our future engineers.

 

[OxBrew]

This is called intentional misinformation of public. Let me unpack.
There are two major claims: (1) the EVs will consume more energy than air conditioners. and (2) The electricity generation and delivery system will be overwhelmed by EVs.
(1) The ACs are used for limited number of months and their use heavily depends on your location. Where I live in Oklahoma, my 2 EVs use energy in the range of 0.6-0.9 MWh a month. This is infinitely more than the ACs use in January, duh. In July-August, however, my ACs can easily consume 1.5-2.0 MWh in a month with overall consumption of well over 3 MWh.
View attachment 928933

(2) So, speaking of the grid capacity, the politician uses AVERAGE AC use as a reference to claim the system overload. However, an example of ethical behavior as an engineer would be to use the PEAK AC use. As you can see from the graph above, my cars are consuming less than 25% of my overall peak usage. Interestingly, this is about the same additional fraction of the total electricity produced that would be required to convert ALL vehicles in the US to electricity. That conversion will take years and more than one president. Most likely, the efficiency of the houses, ACs, the reduction in oil refinery needs, etc. will lead to electricity usage savings that would offset some demand increase due to EVs.

Thank you, we should use this Thomas the MIT grad as an example of unethical behavior when educating our future engineers.

Not only that, but a lot of the grid transformation will be micro grids supported by Vehicle-to-grid and behind the meter batteries, on top of massive battery farm grid firming.

The only independent rigorous studies show by 2050 we can be 100% electric vehicles, appliances, almost everything, using existing plans for grid transformation, and we'll all save money on our energy bills.

It will cost society more (to pay for burning FF) if we don't transition. It's beyond FUD, it's FF mis-information. PR to try to keep selling us oil. Go away.

(one study. there are dozens that show different flavors of the same thing. Talking heads on Fox don't rate a response.)

Going green could save world 'trillions' - study - BBC News

New report says falling cost of renewable energy makes switch from fossil fuels cheapest option.

www.bbc.com

 

[EVer Hopeful]

Representative Thomas Massie (who is also an MIT EE grad) says we are relying on political science rather the engineering regarding our current green energy goals. Were his comments off base during this interview 9 months ago:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550282224326639616

It was on Fox. What did you expect him to say?

 

[alexgr]

It was on Fox. What did you expect him to say?

I guess he could say the truth that, for example, Biden got into figurative bed with Barra and UAW to use taxpayer dollars to subsidize ineffective companies and to buy UAW votes.

This could be both true and "Foxy".

 

[EVer Hopeful]

This could be both true and "Foxy".

Come on; it can't be both

 

[oldsport]

now that you can an mylr for 50K ??? this thread is meaningless...

my wins...

 

[chinney]

I think that the Model Y / MME comparison was largely meaningless even before the Model Y price drop. The MME ultimately just does not cut it. Ford will have to do better with the next generation of the vehicle. I expect that Ford will do so, but whether Ford can also make it profitable and price competitive with what Tesla will be doing in the next 3-5 years remains to be seen. Based on other threads I have seen here, Tesla is making advances in manufacturing technology and strategies that are going to continue to give them a real edge.

 

[carcrazyguy]

now that you can an mylr for 50K ??? this thread is meaningless...

my wins...

Add 10k ADM to this and anyone can buy a Mach E near me. I will take the EV leader for 30k less and the infrastructure that comes with them!

 

[carcrazyguy]

Add 10k ADM to this and anyone can buy a Mach E near me. I will take the EV leader for 30k less and the infrastructure that comes with them!

Want to shop around other area stealerships in the area?

 

[Apprunner]

Crazy. $81k for a PoS Mach E! That’s Model S territory with 50% more range and 50% more power.

 

[carcrazyguy]

Crazy. $81k for a PoS Mach E! That’s Model S territory with 50% more range and 50% more power.

And if you go try to look at them most the dealers around here won’t let you test drive them and basically try to sell you something else. Most of the salesmen that we dealt with didn’t know the product and didn’t care. It was circus of confusion when you ask about the car and features.

 

[Unobtanium]

We don’t qualify for the tax credit.

Even the EV6 GT is only mid 13’s so it is closer to the LR model. We couldn’t find anything that was the performance equivalent and price competitor to the MYP. Then add the charging infrastructure Tesla has and there is no match. If Model Y Plaid was available, we have gone that route.


EDIT….I also found Motor Trend is saying that the EV6 GT is almost identical to MYP spec (0-60 and 1/4 mile). I will keep my eyes open for one around here..

My ev6 GT ran 11.6@118 in 32f weather last time I ran it on my Dragy. 0-60 3.3s with 1ft rollout removed.

 

[Whatstreet]

My ev6 GT ran 11.6@118 in 32f weather last time I ran it on my Dragy. 0-60 3.3s with 1ft rollout removed.

The problem with the EV6 is no tax credit and dealer ADM. The Y or the 3 is a much better value.

 

[alexgr]

The problem with the EV6 is no tax credit and dealer ADM. The Y or the 3 is a much better value.

The major problem with the EV6 is that it is a KIA, imho. I just can't overcome my perception of Korean cars shaped in the 90th and 00th.

 

[meomyo]

The major problem with the EV6 is that it is a KIA, imho. I just can't overcome my perception of Korean cars shaped in the 90th and 00th.

i agree....kia/hyundai/ford/audi/nissan/chevy..no thanx...they care moe about ice then ev...and rivian? dont get me started

 

[Earl]

The major problem with the EV6 is that it is a KIA, imho. I just can't overcome my perception of Korean cars shaped in the 90th and 00th.

I'm more opposed to their coziness with North Korea (North Korean labor was even more desperate/cheap than South Korean) and the sweatshop conditions their workers must endure.
Having been blocked, as part of a vendor tech team, from leaving a Korean design center (not Hyundai/Kia) when it was 2:00 am and things that had worked at 11:00 pm were no longer working. My approach to such situations is a little sleep, then get back to work. Their response was that they had my passport (they held it at the gate) and that my team should keep working. I experienced some of their other sweatshops as well.
Kudos to their luke-warm efforts toward vehicle electrification but that's a corporate culture I can live without supporting any more than necessary.

 

[voxel]

The problem with the EV6 is no tax credit and dealer ADM. The Y or the 3 is a much better value.

Nope.

Some of us aren't eligible for the tax credit due to income limits (cough, cough) and Hyundai + Kia offer $7500 lease incentives and you can buyout the lease immediately so a $55K M3P and a $63K EV6 GT are the same price to me.

As for markup... that's been gone for the past 5+ months now in the US. Any dealer with markup is simply shady and most Kia/Hyundai dealers are actually discounting Ioniq 5s and EV6s.

 

[Apprunner]

Nope.

Some of us aren't eligible for the tax credit due to income limits (cough, cough) and Hyundai + Kia offer $7500 lease incentives and you can buyout the lease immediately so a $55K M3P and a $63K EV6 GT are the same price to me.

As for markup... that's been gone for the past 5+ months now in the US. Any dealer with markup is simply shady and most Kia/Hyundai dealers are actually discounting Ioniq 5s and EV6s.

Ironically my M3P has been far more reliable in my 4 years of ownership than my EV6 which has stranded me a couple times (only 1 year of ownership too). Stupid 12V on it keeps draining and I got a couple random check lights which I had to take to dealer. After a year of ownership, I still prefer the Tesla interface over the native system + Carplay that the EV6 offers. After all that said, my wife prefers the EV6 over the Tesla and her opinion on the family car is all important to our family