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Car guy coming from an ICE

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Interesting article on how auto makers are adapting (and mostly not adapting) to the EV revolution:

Inside Tesla -- And What's Really Disrupting The Automotive Industry

One issue not addressed in the article is, who will be left holding the bag when it becomes difficult to unload your rapidly depreciating ICE car due to the economic advantage of owning an EV? And, about 30% of new cars in the US are leased. What happens when the company holding the lease eventually gets their ICE car back that's more difficult to sell than anticipated? Is this a 2008 housing market disaster waiting to happen?
 
Interesting article on how auto makers are adapting (and mostly not adapting) to the EV revolution:

Inside Tesla -- And What's Really Disrupting The Automotive Industry

One issue not addressed in the article is, who will be left holding the bag when it becomes difficult to unload your rapidly depreciating ICE car due to the economic advantage of owning an EV? And, about 30% of new cars in the US are leased. What happens when the company holding the lease eventually gets their ICE car back that's more difficult to sell than anticipated? Is this a 2008 housing market disaster waiting to happen?

I watched the YouTube lecture from Tony Seba that someone posted in another thread the other day. I think he's partially right and there will be a decline in car ownership as people in at least some areas choose to do car sharing rather than own a car, but I don't think it will be as wholesale as he thinks it will be.

Though there is already a problem with lease cars in the US.
U.S. used-car glut is a dealer’s dream, automakers’ nightmare

The current glut is due to attractive lease offers a couple of years ago and this glut may get better in the short term, but I think we will be seeing off and on off-lease gluts over the next few years that progressively get worse and worse.
 
You could call me a petrol head. I even used to sell cars for 7 years because of my passion. Just yesterday I was in the city and a Aston Martin did a Full acceleration. It was noisy/ smokey and caught everybody's attention. I fought what a idiot. These days I think ICE cars are just old dirty noisy tech. Ice cars are just not that cool anymore and I have moved on. My passion is in electric these days and I'm confident sometime in the future most people will see ice as inconvenient dirty oilly old tech that nobody desires- it will be like living in Texas and buying a car with out air con. The reason why electric cars are becoming so popular isn't only because of environmental credentials it because they drive and have so many advantages. I'm confident if you get the model 3 you will not look back. Hope this helps
 
Thus far most adopters of non-Tesla EVs have been people concerned about the environment or people who want to take advantage of some incentive offered by a government. Most EVs are very compromised designs and most are pretty ugly.

Outside of the eco buyers, really environmentally friendly cars are like recycling. Back when you had to separate everything out and haul it to the recycling center yourself, few people recycled. Now that it just involves having an extra bin in the kitchen and putting out an extra bin on trash day, most people do it. People will do good things for the environment if they are only a small nuisance, or no nuisance at all.

Tesla has dramatically reduced the nuisances of EVs. They still take longer to refuel, but with superchargers it is actually a nice forced break on a long road trip that forces me to get out any walk around a bit. With everything else that's of any importance to me,Tesla EVs are head and shoulders superior to ICE. I didn't really like driving until I got my Model S, now I make up reasons to run errands.
 
As was stated up North in this thread... "silence is the new LOUD."

Half the time that I drive my wife's BMW Z4, I like the lovely sound of its engine. But yesterday I just thought it sounded wasteful and inefficient. yesterday's technology. Every time I drive our Outback, I think that - wasteful, underpowered, wrong drivetrain. Electric cars are now IT - both more sporty and more luxurious, due to the instant torque and silence.

Enjoy your music!
 
Makes ya wonder how Hollywood will deal with the obligatory screaming engine car chase scene in future action films.
Based on the engine noise they added in for a Tesla on a movie I watched last nightMI-5 (2015) - IMDb, I wonder if we might see a bit of a transition for Hollywood to get onboard with quiet transport. So far it hasn’t been a big deal as Tesla doesn’t give its cars away to Hollywood like the other MFRs do so we still don’t see many on screen.
 
You know what I'd suggest... don't even test drive a MS. Seriously, go find a Nissan dealership and test out a Leaf. Even THAT will give you a grin on your face as you launch off the line with almost no noise and a good kick in the chest. It won't blow you away, but you'll grin. Then consider that the Model 3 will be a good 100x that feeling (since the Model S is at least 1000X).

I've driven a lot of cars. I've smiled with a lot of them. I miss a lot of them. But its just so much more important to reduce emissions that I *would* give up a smile. But I didn't have to. Electric cars are exhilarating... just in a different way. The Leaf was fun. The Model S... whole...different...level.

Incidentally, I've never driven a S with ludicrous (or even insane). I had a brief ride in a 75D and a 24 hour stint with a 90 (not P or D). Both were incredible to drive with ridiculous acceleration. I can only imagine what the P really gives you.
Absolutely agree with you even leaf is awesome-I don't miss anything in ICE cars. I take off instantly, listen to music/news crystal clear and enjoy the surrounding in sublime peace. Moreover, driving guilt free with zero emission- we all need sense of caring, concern with moral/ethical values.
 
I will agree with many previous posters. I, too, am a gear head. I love a good exhaust note as much as anyone. But, that is changing. EVs will change your perspective. Once you have experienced the EV drivetrain, you will begin to realize that all the things you used to associate with performance no longer need to have any relationship with performance. I would argue that many of the things you like (exhaust tone, revving engines, snappy, tire chirping gear shifts) are an acquired taste- likely due to what you associated with performance growing up. Granted, you still love these things today, but the Tesla's tend to help you disassociate many traditional sounds and feelings from your perception of performance. A recent example that I shared in another thread was watching a YouTube channel (Tesla racing channel, I think) watching a P100D hand one muscle car after the next their asses, I realized that all the other cars looked almost pathetic, like they were all over compensating. Smokey burn outs, super loud, high profile cam idles, nitrous, hard shifts. All useless against the Tesla. They just looked like dinosaurs. All the things that used to make me think "wow, that thing is fast" no longer have the same affect on me, and I realized it watching that video.

Now, I am sure there are some owners who might disagree. I am not speaking for everyone - just most.
 
I will agree with many previous posters. I, too, am a gear head. I love a good exhaust note as much as anyone. But, that is changing. EVs will change your perspective. Once you have experienced the EV drivetrain, you will begin to realize that all the things you used to associate with performance no longer need to have any relationship with performance. I would argue that many of the things you like (exhaust tone, revving engines, snappy, tire chirping gear shifts) are an acquired taste- likely due to what you associated with performance growing up. Granted, you still love these things today, but the Tesla's tend to help you disassociate many traditional sounds and feelings from your perception of performance. A recent example that I shared in another thread was watching a YouTube channel (Tesla racing channel, I think) watching a P100D hand one muscle car after the next their asses, I realized that all the other cars looked almost pathetic, like they were all over compensating. Smokey burn outs, super loud, high profile cam idles, nitrous, hard shifts. All useless against the Tesla. They just looked like dinosaurs. All the things that used to make me think "wow, that thing is fast" no longer have the same affect on me, and I realized it watching that video.

Now, I am sure there are some owners who might disagree. I am not speaking for everyone - just most.

I absolutely agree and well said.
 
Very interesting points of view from different perspectives but I do detect some consensus. I too am a car guy who went through the learning curve coming to many of the same conclusions above.

It all started one Saturday morning on my way to Home Depot on a divided six lane arterial. I was stopped at a light next to some sedan which took off rather briskly. Being in my 2009 Corvette I thought I should at least keep up. At the next light, I didn't think I needed to floor it to beat some generic off the line. Once I realized my error it was too late, full throttle at that point didn’t cut it. So now, at the next light I knew I had to go for it. I did, and I was thinking the family next to me was looking like who is this high school kid (I'm a senior) making all this racket and driving like an idiot (while the sedan in the other lane was cleanly away and untouchable).

This ain't right, the iconic American sports car being trounced by some generic looking sedan. I figured this must be one of those Tesla's I heard about. Time to find out how to go for a test drive! The rest is history, as I could not get the torque out of my mind.

My next car was supposed to be a 2016 Corvette Z06, but now was leaning heavily toward Tesla. I called Chevrolet and asked if I could set up a test drive. They told me they do not demonstrate the new Z06. Tesla gave me an overnight which I took over to Chevrolet. I told them that I was either buying that Tesla over there or a Z06 but would need to test one first. They still declined even after I told him they GAVE me their more expensive car for 24 hours.

I said how about this, “I’ll give you a test drive in the Tesla if you let me drive the Corvette Z06”. We had a deal so I drove the Tesla out to the street, stopped and punched it. The sales guy looks at me and says “oh, I can see why you might want one of these!”

Now, my 2009 Corvette hardly gets driven and I should sell it. Comparatively, it’s noisy, clunky and slow (while still looking good). You will find most car guys with Tesla's and multiple high-end cars rarely drive anything else unless it’s at the track or for sporty mountain type slalom. In fact, I believe an electric just substantially beat the Ring record in Germany. The times are changing!

Exhaust noise is certainly going out-of-favor. It is one thing to be noisy and fast but why attract attention to yourself while you are sporting old technology and “losing” the race. It was embarrassing for me in my Corvette as it must be for any other noisy exotic or muscle car out there.

You will not miss your noisy, antiquated mechanically slow ICE anymore than you miss watching black and white TV or your flip phone.
 
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At the risk of getting flamed in this forum, even though my Model S is still new enough to be a novelty to me, I spent most of the week waiting to get into my weekend car. I guess I'm still enough of a car guy that the Model S, though fantasticly efficient and effortless during the week when my mind is on work, falls short of the engagement of a full on drivers car.

Sure if I had to choose just one, it would have to be the Model S, but I would miss that lusty weekend drive.
 
I traded in a 2015 Chevy Sports Sedan on a 2014 P85.
Since most aren't going to be familiar with the SS which is basically a Camaro chassis with a Malibu looking 4dr. body made in Australia, obscure because only 13K total imported 2014-2017, 6.2l engine 415hp and 415tq.
There are some things I miss about the SS some of it being the handling but I suspect a set of rims with summer tires on the MS will help there, the battery weight being so low you can feel it and the car does feel heavy but still controlled.
I really enjoy the response, that is the hook of the MS for me. That and having a higher production car I feel OK about enjoying when there is salt on the road The Chevy was too much of a unicorn to expose to salt, the MS they are making more of every day and it keeps getting better.

I will be buying summer rims and tires.

I like being able to merge into traffic at 6am without feeling bad about the noise, like linear throttle response, the modern drive-by-wire throttle manipulation for the sake of emissions reduction drove me nuts, drove my 2005 Sierra to the Menard's yesterday and that 15 mile round trip was enough.
 
I have always loved driving, especially manual transmission cars. Even a drive to the grocery store was fun for me.

I have a three reservation and leased a Leaf last year and will never buy another ICE. Electric driving is that good. I love it. Smooth, quiet, clean and efficient. The instant acceleration is so nice. Both me and my wife don't like driving our ICE Kia Serento anymore.

I still would like to drive a nice manual car but I will never buy one again.
 
At the risk of getting flamed in this forum, even though my Model S is still new enough to be a novelty to me, I spent most of the week waiting to get into my weekend car. I guess I'm still enough of a car guy that the Model S, though fantasticly efficient and effortless during the week when my mind is on work, falls short of the engagement of a full on drivers car.

Sure if I had to choose just one, it would have to be the Model S, but I would miss that lusty weekend drive.

To each their own. There will always be enthusiasts for the old tech. Like I said upthread, there are enthusiasts who like steam locomotives, old airplanes. And there are people who like 100 year old cars too.

I traded in a 2015 Chevy Sports Sedan on a 2014 P85.
Since most aren't going to be familiar with the SS which is basically a Camaro chassis with a Malibu looking 4dr. body made in Australia, obscure because only 13K total imported 2014-2017, 6.2l engine 415hp and 415tq.

I wasn't familiar with the SS. Looks like GM's answer to Dodge's muscle car options. Is that the large block V-8 or a small block bored out? I looked up the 0-60 time, the SS has around the same HP as the S 90D, but weighs quite a bit less, however it has a worse 0-60 time, though still pretty impressive for an ICE.

My 1974 Chevy Caprice had a 400 ci engine, but it was the small block bored out. They went to far and the engine started having problems around 100K miles. The transmission started having issues around then and I convinced my parents (who still held the title) that it was time to part with the car.

There are some things I miss about the SS some of it being the handling but I suspect a set of rims with summer tires on the MS will help there, the battery weight being so low you can feel it and the car does feel heavy but still controlled.
I really enjoy the response, that is the hook of the MS for me. That and having a higher production car I feel OK about enjoying when there is salt on the road The Chevy was too much of a unicorn to expose to salt, the MS they are making more of every day and it keeps getting better.

The Model S is going to generally be better about corrosion than a steel car.

I will be buying summer rims and tires.

I like being able to merge into traffic at 6am without feeling bad about the noise, like linear throttle response, the modern drive-by-wire throttle manipulation for the sake of emissions reduction drove me nuts, drove my 2005 Sierra to the Menard's yesterday and that 15 mile round trip was enough.

My SO had some health problems earlier this year that required a few hospital procedures. We had to leave the house at 4 AM a few times and I was very glad to have the quiet car. We live at the end of a long cul de sac and everyone in the neighborhood can hear anyone else leaving early if their car makes any noise at all. It doesn't help that the floor plans in this neighborhood puts the master bedroom of many houses in the front..

We had a renter a few doors up with a big diesel pick-up for about a year. In the winter he would fire up the truck and let it idle for 20 minutes before leaving. My SO got a dB meter and measured 70 dB at her pillow. I could hear that thing all the way down the hill too.
 
The SS 0-60 is hurt somewhat by the electronic throttle not doing what you tell it. Engine is the LS3 that debuted in the 2008 Corvette a 6.2l gen 3 smallblock. The Dodge offerings are ancient Mercedes chassis that they put more power in than they can handle and have Mopar build quality that is to say none, much too heavy for what they are and handling not great, those are "look at me" cars.
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he Chevy SS is one of the all time great sleepers, if you look at pics the 2014-15 look like a cross between an Malibu and Impala, the 2016-17 they cheesed up a bit with red calipers, hood vents and cheaper rims, and exhaust with two volume levels, all stupid things to do to an understated sleeper. The Chevy Motor Trend said that as a "drivers car" beat BMW at the "Sports sedan" segment.

If I had any time left to modify cars I would have kept it, there were a lot of great things about it. Had I modified it I would have been trying to get the quicker response the MS has vs. aiming for more peak HP, being a Vette sourced motor I feel the design of the overly large cylinder heads deliberately compromised lowend torque and response. It would have been very easy to get the Chevy to do 0-60 in under 3.9, heck my 1996 Caprice did 3.0 second 0-60 at the dragstrip on slicks and that was just 5.7l LT1 from back then. That is calculated based on 60ft time and 1/8th mile mph 1.53 second 60ft and 92-93mph 1/8th mile mph