Don’t order SR or MR if your winter is cold.

[ucmndd]

Can you do math? I am using almost double battery capacity for the same driving.

They only way you’re even sort of arriving at that conclusion is by counting losses overnight when the car isn’t moving.

Then you’re using what’s close to a worst case scenario (short trip with a completely cold soaked battery) and concluding that those results are representative of all situations and everyone will lose “at least 50%” of capacity all winter.

Come on.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

I will post the M3 Real World wH/mile once my wife gets hers back from the shop, has over 16k miles.

 

[rypalmer]

You should expect at least 50% reduction in real-world range due to decreased battery efficiency, increased need for heating, increased vampire battery drain.

Log your data with Teslafi and show us your temperature efficiency chart after a few thousand kms in each temperature band and then we can chat.

 

[thefortunes]

More DATA.

This is November so far (which is mainly short drives, the worst type for efficiency in the cold).

15% hit on 35F average temperature.

Oh, and BTW, my lifetime average is 317 Wh/mi, so the reduction from average is ACTUALLY LESS than what the data says (which is reduction from RATED).

 

[voip-ninja]

I am probably seeing a 30% or greater reduction in range in Colorado winter driving. My commute is about 10 miles each way, suburban driving.

I'm also seeing noticeably increased vampire loss that I assume is due to cold weather when the car is parked.

I am definitely glad I bought the bigger battery.

 

[SageBrush]

Can you do math?

Sometimes.
You should charge proximate to the time you leave, and watch how your "math" changes.

Also explain why an LR Model 3 is required for a 25 mile commute. You cannot extrapolate out your 25 mile trip experience to what will happen in a long trip.

 

[Knightshade]

This can’t be accurate. I will give you one example. Normally if I charge to 90% the previous day and drive to work for 25 miles I would have 80-81% left in summer. Now in 30-40F temperature, I will lose 3-4% battery overnight and will have 72-73% left after driving to work. I am only heating to 64F in my car.

So what you are saying is, even when it's cold you'd have plenty of charge left even with the SR battery.

Might wanna change the thread title.

 

[cleveland97]

More DATA.

This is November so far (which is mainly short drives, the worst type for efficiency in the cold).

15% hit on 35F average temperature.

View attachment 353958

Oh, and BTW, my lifetime average is 317 Wh/mi, so the reduction from average is ACTUALLY LESS than what the data says (which is reduction from RATED).

I guess the confusion could be over the proper starting point. To get 310 miles of rated range you would need to be at about 250-260 wh/mile. Comparing average in November to lifetime average is useful, but for a new owner that expects 310 miles of range they are comparing their current experience to 260 wh/mile (which isn't real world in at least my limited experience)...

 

[SageBrush]

They only way you’re even sort of arriving at that conclusion is by counting losses overnight when the car isn’t moving.

Right, but those are not real losses.

 

[cleveland97]

Right, but those are not real losses.

But those ARE real loses to range (just not necessarily from DRIVING in the cold), and for new people coming from an ICE car that's a shock.

 

[Nocturnal]

But those ARE real loses to range (just not necessarily from DRIVING in the cold), and for new people coming from an ICE car that's a shock.

That is probably the main issue. Battery indicates 200 mile range. - Driving 70 mph = X% loss, 15 degrees is Y%, wet road Z%, cabin heater W%. Somebody probably won't pay attention when they are just seeing the X% loss (like myself), but hitting a cold snap and suddenly seeing the combined losses of W,X,Y,Z can be a shock, as it was for me.

 

[cleveland97]

That is probably the main issue. Battery indicates 200 mile range. - Driving 70 mph = X% loss, 15 degrees is Y%, wet road Z%, cabin heater W%. Somebody probably won't pay attention when they are just seeing the X% loss (like myself), but hitting a cold snap and suddenly seeing the combined losses of W,X,Y,Z can be a shock, as it was for me.

Well said - that's been my experience in my M3 AWD for the last 7 weeks... it's the CUMULATIVE range loss.

 

[SageBrush]

But those ARE real loses to range (just not necessarily from DRIVING in the cold), and for new people coming from an ICE car that's a shock.

The battery takes on less capacity when it is cold. OPs arithmetic is flawed

 

[azaz]

lets do the math on this real quick.

I'm In NYC, planning on getting the SR battery. lets say 5 years from now the 220 mile battery only has 187 at full charge (15% range loss). assuming I charge to 80% I get 149.6 miles of available range. Even with a 50% range loss on the coldest of days (and it will be less as the drive gets longer) it's still more than enough even with these calculations that are conservative as hell. Personally I expect less than 15% range loss and on an especially long route could always charge the battery to 100% instead of 80.

 

[maroon555]

i am not saying I can’t survive the winter with my model 3. I survived last winter with my BMW i3 with a daily round trip of 50 miles. But the effect of winter on all EV is more or less the same. Just don’t expect 15-30% loss of range in winter compared to the same summer driving pattern. Expect much worse.

 

[acoste]

The leakage current of the battery is proportional to the temperature. The colder it is, the less charge it loses. The only reason for charge loss when parked is the battery heating. And I guess it will show less range for a cold battery than for a warm one (at the end of the trip).
The service manual says minimum battery temperature for driving is -1F and 32F for charging.

 

[azaz]

i am not saying I can’t survive the winter with my model 3. I survived last winter with my BMW i3 with a daily round trip of 50 miles. But the effect of winter on all EV is more or less the same. Just don’t expect 15-30% loss of range in winter compared to the same summer driving pattern. Expect much worse.

I think for shorter trips it can be as much as 50%.

 

[voip-ninja]

lets do the math on this real quick.

I'm In NYC, planning on getting the SR battery. lets say 5 years from now the 220 mile battery only has 187 at full charge (15% range loss). assuming I charge to 80% I get 149.6 miles of available range. Even with a 50% range loss on the coldest of days (and it will be less as the drive gets longer) it's still more than enough even with these calculations that are conservative as hell. Personally I expect less than 15% range loss and on an especially long route could always charge the battery to 100% instead of 80.

I think you are approaching it the right way. Some people use their cars for more than commuting. We used to always take our MDX SUV places on the weekends but since I can charge my Model 3 for free at my work we have been driving it a lot more on area trips since it's basically "free" compared to the 18 mpg we get on the SUV.

Friday I left my office with a 244 mile rated range (80%) charge. I went to a nearby work location that has no charging, it is only about eight miles away.

Then I went home (10 miles or so), picked up the family and went to dinner about 10 miles away and then back home. We got traffic on the way to the restaurant and sat in stop and go traffic for about 30 minutes.

It was around 25-30F the entire time.

When I parked the car in the garage at the end of this "busy" day I had 178 miles left.

So I drove 38 miles roughly and lost about 67 miles of range.

A busier day of family travel would result in a lot more range used and would leave me unable to do the things I need to do if I had the SR car.

YMMV of course.

//aside

The car sat in my garage uncharged (was planning on charging free @ work) for the remainder of the weekend.

I drove 10 miles to work today and they were working on the parking garage and I was unable to charge. I just checked the range on the car via the app and it's now 138. So, I drove 10 miles today, left the car parked in the garage saturday and sunday and the car lost about 40 miles of range.

Yeah, winter time is not EV friendly if you live in a cold climate.

 

[azaz]

I think you are approaching it the right way. Some people use their cars for more than commuting. We used to always take our MDX SUV places on the weekends but since I can charge my Model 3 for free at my work we have been driving it a lot more on area trips since it's basically "free" compared to the 18 mpg we get on the SUV.

Friday I left my office with a 244 mile rated range (80%) charge. I went to a nearby work location that has no charging, it is only about eight miles away.

Then I went home (10 miles or so), picked up the family and went to dinner about 10 miles away and then back home. We got traffic on the way to the restaurant and sat in stop and go traffic for about 30 minutes.

It was around 25-30F the entire time.

When I parked the car in the garage at the end of this "busy" day I had 179 miles left.

So I drove 38 miles roughly and lost about 67 miles of range.

A busier day of family travel would result in a lot more range used and would leave me unable to do the things I need to do if I had the SR car.

YMMV of course.

I guess as everything, it comes down to tradeoffs and decisions you have to make for your use case.

 

[thefortunes]

i am not saying I can’t survive the winter with my model 3. I survived last winter with my BMW i3 with a daily round trip of 50 miles. But the effect of winter on all EV is more or less the same. Just don’t expect 15-30% loss of range in winter compared to the same summer driving pattern. Expect much worse.

I think for shorter trips it can be as much as 50%.

I am scared for the world when DATA is ignored and the same FUD is repeated over and over.

Does 50% reduction ON SHORT TRIPS really matter? You are still getting there by definition
(i.e. "short trip").