Elon Musk deletes twitter posts about P85D/85D efficiency increases

[403portside]

You forgot to mention the center console, but that would just add insult to injury.

Your post is spot on and says all of the things I have been thinking. When I bought the Model S, enthusiasts encouraged me by saying that Tesla under-promises and over-delivers. That was surely the case with the RWD cars and P85, which had tested 0-60 times that were measurably faster than Tesla's claim. Since then, and since the departure of George Blankenship, I feel that Tesla has been over-promising and under-delivering. I feel like Tesla wants us to know that they aren't standing still, and that's fine, but the way they are doing it is hurting their credibility. Personally I would appreciate less hype and more finished products. Even if that means silence from Tesla for months on end. That's okay with me. Surprises are fun and exciting, disappointment is not.

+ 1

 

[palmer_md]

... and since the departure of George Blankenship, I feel that Tesla has been over-promising and under-delivering....
Say hello to Tesla's (useless) VP of Communications and Marketing...In March of this year, Tesla hired Simon Sproule away from Nissan as VP of Communications and Marketing. He started his job in April. Here we are just 8 months later and with more communications missteps by Tesla than I can remember. I believe this individual has responsibility here. What is he doing? Can anyone point to anything that this person has done to actually improve Tesla's communications? As far as I'm concerned, comms have gone downhill since he started.

Well if you've done any reading on the mynissanleaf.com forum you'd know that Nissan is the king of bad communications. It is a constant battle with them to find the truth. Plenty of overpromises and under deliveries. Tesla seems to stumble and fumble a bit, but they do seem to eventually come through in the end. I think they are learning from each of these mistakes, and the company will be better for it in the end. I'm sorry for those who feel caught up in this situation, but I'm hopeful you will be happy with the upcoming resolution to the issue. Just because the tweets were removed does not mean that the software update to solve the issue has been abandoned.

 

[breser]

Say hello to Tesla's VP of Communications and Marketing...

In March of this year, Tesla hired Simon Sproule away from Nissan as VP of Communications and Marketing. He started his job in April. Here we are just 8 months later and with more communications missteps by Tesla than I can remember. I believe this individual has responsibility here. What is he doing? Can anyone point to anything that this person has done to actually improve Tesla's communications? As far as I'm concerned, comms have gone downhill since he started.

Simon Sproule left Tesla around October to join Aston Martin:
Tesla VP Communications Simon Sproule to Leave for Aston Martin - WSJ

Ricardo Reyes who had left Tesla to join Square has returned:
Ricardo Reyes Rejoins Tesla As Communications Chief, Leaving Square - Businessweek

Not sure when Reyes started (or if he has started yet). So it's quite possible that Tesla has been without a VP of Communications and Marketing since right before the D announcement.

 

[ChadS]

I tried to read the whole thread, but skimmed a lot so I may have missed something. But one possible reason for changing communication could be the EPA. With gas cars, they don't let automakers make ANY efficiency or range claims other than ones based on the EPA-rated mpg. Tesla was obviously giving non-EPA range info, especially before the EPA tests were done. (Though to be clear, Tesla does the tests, just following the EPA's rules).

The EV range rules might not be as tight, but they might be trying to crack down and asking Tesla to only talk about EPA rated range. That could explain some (not all) of the bad communication on the issue.

I do sure the heck hope they can get the range up where they initially promised. I am optimistic as they've always delivered on claims like that in the past (not all claims; but claims of this type), but claims of better range changing to similar range, and questions about range changes getting evasive answers about EPA numbers (which aren't going to change) have me a little worried. Still, getting wound up before having all the facts in generally isn't productive so I'm willing to wait for an explanation (and hopefully, better-performing cars). Of course that's easier for me than for D owners - I hope the wait isn't long.

[EDIT a little later] And now I just remembered that the EPA range, while commonly quoted as a single combo number, includes city and highway numbers - and the P85D highway numbers ARE better than those of the P85. So...it seems likely that P85D performance will improve? But how did they get that rating if it doesn't meet it now? It's all so confuzzling. Like everybody else, I'm looking forward to a blog post explaining it all.

 

[403portside]

New blog post from Tesla -- Jerome just sent this to me.

Driving Range for the Model S Family | Blog | Tesla Motors

 

[fryfrye]

See new Blog with updates and clarifications: Driving Range for the Model S Family | Blog | Tesla Motors

 

[Johan]

Nice, all cleared up then. Except for Elon's "same or better range than P85+" statement.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Simon Sproule left Tesla around October to join Aston Martin:
Tesla VP Communications Simon Sproule to Leave for Aston Martin - WSJ

Ricardo Reyes who had left Tesla to join Square has returned:
Ricardo Reyes Rejoins Tesla As Communications Chief, Leaving Square - Businessweek

Not sure when Reyes started (or if he has started yet). So it's quite possible that Tesla has been without a VP of Communications and Marketing since right before the D announcement.

Thank you for the info! I read the above article and this interesting tidbit jumped out at me:

"Most recently, Simon Sproule, a former Nissan Motor (7201:JP) executive, left Tesla after just seven months on the job, in part because of struggles he faced trying to hire more staff."

 

[Andyw2100]

I have an ongoing email thread with Jerome and just asked him again, point blank, whether the 285 miles @ 65 mph claim was valid. His response was to point to the EPA numbers, 242 with 21s and 250 with 19s, and says these numbers are being released by the EPA soon.

In the tracking thread you had given an excerpt from a response that Jerome had written to you:

Jereome, writing privately to 403portside:
I have been driving P85D with 21” and autopilot for a long time and I am getting much better energy consumption than the figure you quote below. Even in the current California weather (near freezing when I come to work or go back home)

I then asked in that thread:

Would you be able / willing to ask Jerome explicitly if he is running software that is known to improve the range over the software we are running? I'm not suggesting that you ask for specific information about when we may get that software, but rather only if that software does exist, since he seems to have brought it up (by making reference to the autopilot features.)

I'm guessing you may have missed that, since you didn't respond.

So I'd like to ask that again now, as I think it is still very relevant, and would still help us get a lot closer to an answer we are all hoping for. You are actively corresponding with Jerome on this issue, so you have access that right now the rest of us do not enjoy. He made reference, in a response to you, to the use of obviously different software, since he mentioned that he was driving a P85D with autopilot capabilities. I don't think there would be anything at all inappropriate about your asking him if this software that he is using, that is clearly different from the production software, was also different from the production software from an efficiency standpoint, and if so, if it was the software the EPA testing was based on. These are reasonable questions that he opened the door to.

Thanks!

Edit: I was composing this, gathering quotes from different threads, etc., as this thread was being updated with the blog entry. So please disregard, I guess. I am off to read the blog entry now, but wanted to edit this first.

 

[heems]

Not to so say I told you so.. but

1) Give a window for Tesla to respond and they have (see blog). Better yet, they are standing by their numbers and cleared up the EPA/Constant cruise #s.
2) It's still true that they could/should have mentioned the temporary lack of torque sleep/normal mode. Just like auto pilot. Why they did not we may never know, but hopefully they will do better in future.

Go Telsa!

 

[dennis]

The problem is not that he's tweeting about stuff, it's how he's tweeting, selling stuff that's really just in development as if it's ready, or nearly ready, and it's not only not nearly ready, it's not even guaranteed to be released. If he stuck to treating Tesla development work as development work, avoided expression of certainty on dates, and then gave progress updates and reasons for delays Tesla would still be a cool company, doing cool stuff and they could still get people to pay to get on waiting lists for items, but at least people on the list would know what they're getting into.

Reminds me of a famous quote in a WSJ article when Larry Ellison (Oracle CEO) was asked about exactly the same issue: "Sometimes I get my tenses confused."

 

[403portside]

In the tracking thread you had given an excerpt from a response that Jerome had written to you:



I then asked in that thread:



I'm guessing you may have missed that, since you didn't respond.

So I'd like to ask that again now, as I think it is still very relevant, and would still help us get a lot closer to an answer we are all hoping for. You are actively corresponding with Jerome on this issue, so you have access that right now the rest of us do not enjoy. He made reference, in a response to you, to the use of obviously different software, since he mentioned that he was driving a P85D with autopilot capabilities. I don't think there would be anything at all inappropriate about your asking him if this software that he is using, that is clearly different from the production software, was also different from the production software from an efficiency standpoint, and if so, if it was the software the EPA testing was based on. These are reasonable questions that he opened the door to.

Thanks!

Edit: I was composing this, gathering quotes from different threads, etc., as this thread was being updated with the blog entry. So please disregard, I guess. I am off to read the blog entry now, but wanted to edit this first.

Yup I saw your request and did ask him but didn't get a firm response. But looks like his blog post effectively confirms that there is an update software car that will be used for EPA tests.

 

[403portside]

Not to so say I told you so.. but

1) Give a window for Tesla to respond and they have (see blog). Better yet, they are standing by their numbers and cleared up the EPA/Constant cruise #s.
2) It's still true that they could/should have mentioned the temporary lack of torque sleep/normal mode. Just like auto pilot. Why they did not we may never know, but hopefully they will do better in future.

Go Telsa!

To be fair, I sent MANY emails to Jerome, and we had some relatively tense exchanges back and forth. Multiply me times 20-50 and you have a bunch of people putting pressure on Tesla to respond, which they can't ignore. I'm glad they did and give them credit but I think owner pressure played a big part.

 

[jerry33]

Why would or should it be an either-or kind of thing, though?

Of course, it shouldn't be, but if it [communication] was easy for Tesla to fix, it would be fixed by now, so "either or" might be the only viable option.

 

[heems]

To be fair, I sent MANY emails to Jerome, and we had some relatively tense exchanges back and forth. Multiply me times 20-50 and you have a bunch of people putting pressure on Tesla to respond, which they can't ignore. I'm glad they did and give them credit but I think owner pressure played a big part.

Yes, as i had mentioned in an earlier post, no doubt (between the emails from owners such as yourself and all the forums posts which we know Tesla monitors), they were aware of this concern. I was merely echoing the sentiment to give Tesla a chance to address before getting all worked up in a tizzy. It has not been the perfect execution on Tesla's part no doubt and again I hope Tesla can do better in the future.

 

[Andyw2100]

I just posted the following as a comment on the blog post:

--
This is excellent information, and very, VERY good news for current and future P85D owners. It is presented quite clearly, and is certainly easy to understand. Thank you.


I would like to add, though, that Tesla could have prevented a lot of worry and concern being felt by new P85D owners over range numbers and energy usage figures that we were seeing that were not in line with our expectations if Tesla had simply made us aware that this January software update was in the works, and that our vehicles were not yet as efficient as they would be. Instead, we were given our key fobs, and our fantastic 0-60, 3.2 second Insane Mode masterpieces of technology, with not so much as a word of warning as to the fact that we should not yet expect to see the range or energy usage that was on the window stickers that came with our cars, or that had been on the Tesla Motors site when we ordered our cars. Frankly, this caused a great deal of anxiety and worry. At a time we all should have been exuberantly enjoying our brand new wonder-cars, many of us were wringing our hands, wondering if they were ever going to achieve the range we expected them to. This just wasn't necessary. I thank you, sincerely, for providing this information now, but can't say strongly enough how much better it would have been if the information had been offered a month ago.


Thanks again for building great cars!
--

 

[dennis]

Nice post!

 

[darthy001]

Nice. Then we have the firm statement they should have come with long ago. If these numbers turn out to be true then I will be satisfied at least.

Anyone think they will let me change my order of wheels based on this blog? They are quite adament about the 19" cyclones... Considering having them instead of the standard wheels for the winter...

 

[bluenation]

this update should have been pushed BEFORE they started selling to ppl handing over their hard earned cash.

hopefully they learned the lesson that this won't fly with the soccer moms of X buyers, and even less so with the mass market model.

 

[403portside]

Yes, as i had mentioned in an earlier post, no doubt (between the emails from owners such as yourself and all the forums posts which we know Tesla monitors), they were aware of this concern. I was merely echoing the sentiment to give Tesla a chance to address before getting all worked up in a tizzy. It has not been the perfect execution on Tesla's part no doubt and again I hope Tesla can do better in the future.

Yes agree. I retrospect I would have liked to have been calmer about the whole thing