What's up with the Model 3 door closing at 5:40 (of this video: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-the-2018-60-minutes-interview/)? Sounds "funny", like a spring or a toy. Does any Model 3 owner can verify that it sounds real?
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Elon Musk
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israndy
Supercharger Hunter
Your link fails, just needed to edit it a bit:
Tesla CEO Elon Musk: The 60 Minutes Interview
Not sure what door closing sound you refer to, at 5:40 into the video a SpaceX rocket is taking off. If you mean the one at 4:48, yeah, that doesn't sound like mine. Looks like a performance model and it could be a prototype used for testing if they were trying to impress her they could have gotten into a unit with unreleased software. All LOOKS normal in the video though.
-Randy
Tesla CEO Elon Musk: The 60 Minutes Interview
Not sure what door closing sound you refer to, at 5:40 into the video a SpaceX rocket is taking off. If you mean the one at 4:48, yeah, that doesn't sound like mine. Looks like a performance model and it could be a prototype used for testing if they were trying to impress her they could have gotten into a unit with unreleased software. All LOOKS normal in the video though.
-Randy
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Super_Popular
Well-Known Member
I wish it would have been longer and I would have liked to hear more about SpaceX and The Boring Company.
You'd need somebody who follows Elon Musk close enough to know all the stuff that Tesla/SpaceX/Boring Company/Solar City followers already know, so we don't get a re-hash, but isn't a sycophant so they'll ask some hard questions.
60 Minutes isn't going to give you that.
I’m just getting tired of downbeat “news” about Tesla. Tesla is steamrolling the competition. We’ve all seen the charts showing how much market share S/X took away from the luxury brands. A few months from now we are going to see similar charts (but not as dramatic) showing similar erosion due to Model 3. Instead we hear about Tesla’s “troubles” and their “challenges”. Gawd.
Dr. J
Active Member
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Brutal, but I’m not surprised. I’ve always thought that Tesla has no management culture. You can see the negative effects in so many ways.
A little anecdote. I briefly met Elon during the unveiling of the battery swap concept. This was the last gathering Tesla had where Elon actually walked the crowd. I challenged Elon by saying that you are going to need Artificial Intelligence to have a truly self driving car. Elon’s demenor changed and he forcefully stated that no, you don’t need AI. It caught me off guard, and I was too much of a twit to continue debating. I got flashbacks to that little interaction when I was reading the Wired article.
Having said that, could Tesla and SpaceX have been successful with someone else running them? Possible, but low probability. I am interested to see how Rivian does as it seems to be run by a smart, but relatively normal guy.
Yes, there is his personality, I believe that is needed to achieve things he has done. It's a double edged sword though. Stubbornness is essential to keep going even when everyone is against you, but not listening to others also brought the biggest mistake at the Model 3 assembly line.
And there are very few people who could cope with the stress the Model 3 delay brought into the company. It is expected that the negative traits will get amplified. My question is, will they able to solve the most difficult technical challenge (self driving) as of today in this environment? It needs creativity. Stress kills creativity.
Elon created the Model 3 mess. He didn’t institute a management culture, resulting in no one watching the third party contractor that botched the automated battery line. He ignored his manufacturing gurus in trying to accelerate Model 3 production. And he insisted on full automation, which is not only almost impossible, it isn’t even desirable. Full automation results in a design that can’t be modified. Which is fine for GM, but that isn’t how Tesla builds their cars. They innovate too rapidly for that.
It was a pretty unflattering article from start to finish. Was this the same writer who did the Apple Foxxcon articles?, in which case wouldn't have expected anything different from him. Some mention about him at end of article.
With Tesla seemingly changing financial advisors minds, traditional car makers plans, and many in the ICE driving world having to acknowledge what an evolutionary driving car the Model 3 is, and Tesla's stock at highs that rattle the short-sellers I fully anticipated more negative Musk/Tesla stories to appear now. And here we are. Also noticed a union story for Gigafactory 2 in today's press. With end of year balancing of investment funds to be done within a few week's time for that published return rate seems like plenty of incentive for negative stories to appear now especially. Quarterly numbers won't come before then.
With Tesla seemingly changing financial advisors minds, traditional car makers plans, and many in the ICE driving world having to acknowledge what an evolutionary driving car the Model 3 is, and Tesla's stock at highs that rattle the short-sellers I fully anticipated more negative Musk/Tesla stories to appear now. And here we are. Also noticed a union story for Gigafactory 2 in today's press. With end of year balancing of investment funds to be done within a few week's time for that published return rate seems like plenty of incentive for negative stories to appear now especially. Quarterly numbers won't come before then.
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FWIW, you were right and Elon was wrong. I think Musk's never driven on a rural road.
Yeah, I'm following them and Bollinger. Also Proterra.
I'm going to interrupt here... because that's not actually true.
You can design a fullly automated line which can be modified. Musk simply *didn't*. Musk insisted on packing everything on the line super super tight to maximize spatial efficiency. This was incorrect, and I knew it was incorrect the moment he mentioned it. If you want a fully automated line which can be modified, you leave big hunks of free space between stations so that you can rip out a station and replace it with a station of a totally different design, which may be larger.
I agree with your primary points though: Musk has failed to create a functioning management culture, and Musk ignored his manufacturing gurus. I don't know if any of them told him *exactly* what I just said, but they might have. Musk can be a really big idiot. Jarrett Walker told him exactly why his dopey "car sled" idea simply wasn't a solution to the urban transportation problems and never would be, and Musk wouldn't listen, because Musk's mind was closed and he was unwilling to learn -- always a bad thing.
I am unusual in believing that full self driving is both
(a) impossible (the roads are too varied, weird, and random), and
(b) unimportant (since nobody else is going to achieve it, who cares whether Tesla does?).
As long as Tesla has among the best driver assist features, they'll be fine.
@neroden don't know if being in NY you have had the opportunity to see the factory in person but come time for the Model 3 to be built there, there wasn't a whole lot of space to set up the production lines. So really no room to leave large blocks of space for modifying the line. If not for the tent going up, there never would have been enough floor space to add an additional line for the 3 which helped them gain profitability. The plant is huge and really fully utilized. I remember it was either Franz or McNeill who said to us in a Tesla event in Monterey after the cars were first being produced that when confronted with the lack of space, Elon suggested going up when they could, which you'll see overhead lines running to this day.
Sean Wagner
Member
For the wider audience, Ryan Popple, Proterra's CEO, came from Tesla a while back. I really liked the following interview.
Watt It Takes:
Assessing the Promise of Electric Buses With Proterra CEO Ryan Popple | AUGUST 22, 2018
How Popple maintained a “keep calm and carry on” attitude during tough times at the electric-bus maker.
Watt It Takes: Assessing the Promise of Electric Buses With Proterra CEO Ryan Popple
From memory, there's also a brief part where he recounts how two lead engineers somewhat reticently came to him to say they basically had to throw a lot of development work over board and start afresh. They still work for the company and it was the right thing to do. Popple listened and struggled and made a risky decision that paid off.
Proterra is still a small company, but Daimler now owns a stake. Sadly, they have zero footprint in Europe at a time when many cities are dipping their toes into the EV bus sphere for the first time and forging connections that may last a while. It's now or never.
EDIT: This just in
BYD Produces Its First Electric Buses In France
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Elon = engineer = pedantic/ cares about terms
AI != NN != DL
Artificial Intelligence (AI) vs. Machine Learning vs. Deep Learning | Skymind
Artificial Intelligence vs. Machine Learning vs. Deep Learning
The cars do learn themselves (beyond map tile hints), thus no active ai in driving.
Put it this way, if you need AI to drive your car, when does the AI learn to drive your car?
Either it can drive a dirt road or it can't (and so can't learn because it is in a ditch)
The way I tend to see it described is that Deep Learning is a subset of Machine learning, and Machine learning is a subset of AI.
This is exactly how the first link you posted has it.
I don't think I'd ever say "You're going to need AI" because that lacks any real definition or meaning. It's too broad of a term to be able effectively communicate what one really means by it.
I would be rather confused if someone said "You're going to need AI for it", and I'd probably respond with "yeah I'm going to need some tools out of the AI toolbox."
Elon is well aware of his own dilemma of actively relying on elements of AI whi
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Roger that.
The root thought I had (which I did not express well) is that I don't think a car will ever have/ need/ be able to utilize AI or DL, it will only run a preconfigured NN/ CNN/ DNN (fixed network and coefficients). Back at home base, there will be learning going on, but not on the road.
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