Elon Musk

[ohmman]

What? I don't really get your recent sudden flip, but that Twitter message is the exact same message that's come from Elon since the beginning. And he'll share in the same manner he always has; what he can, when he can, as it's appropriate and relates to all things on mission. Geesh!

While I've personally seen that as his goal the whole time, I can see why some others didn't. Those with a more cynical view of Elon or business in general might think that SpaceX and Tesla interests are driving Elon's involvement for the purpose of his own enrichment. Given that the guy basically nearly bankrupted himself to start SpaceX and invest in Tesla despite his already considerable wealth, I wouldn't think his own enrichment is really his goal. But I do get that others might not be so quick to trust the guy or come to the same conclusion.

And honestly, a tweet doesn't make much of a difference. It's still possible that he's in it for himself. I don't believe it for a second, and I hope others can see the potential for good in his participation, but I can see why some people continue to be cynical. I just ask that they entertain the idea that maybe he's doing it for more wholesome reasons.

 

[McRat]

Funny. Elon Musk did not object in 2015 when our POTUS did the exact same thing.

It's not just freedom of speech that many Americans now object to, it's freedom of association as well.

I'd venture a guess he's trying to walk a tightrope. Be a reasonable human, and placate the lunatic fringe that burns down ultra-liberal colleges at the same time.

My daughter just came home from a UC college for a couple days. She said students pretended to hold a Nasi Rally just piss off the handwringers. She a handwringer and admits it was funny.

 

[ohmman]

Elon Musk did not object in 2015 when our POTUS did the exact same thing.

We've covered this, and it's not the exact same thing, which is probably why Elon didn't object.

But I do agree that there's some associative negativity at play.

 

[Grendal]

I have written this comment elsewhere so I apologize ahead of time if it is repetitive:

I look at it this way. What would Trump be doing if Elon wasn't around? Exactly what he is doing now. Elon being around changes nothing at all in these early stages. The new administration has the power and they will be using it no matter what. Luckily, Elon and his companies are shining stars in the manufacturing, jobs, and "making America great. That is why he's on the manufacturing and jobs team. Creating a fuss by him would change nothing except getting him out of favor on the team he is a part of. And knowing how the new administration works it would probably put a bullseye on his back and repercussions would happen.

So the question I ask is do I want Elon to be a martyr? No, I do not. Would his sacrifice change anything? Not a chance. In the future he may be able to sway the administration slightly at the right moment in just the right way. That's about the best I can hope for. Keep doing what he is doing since it is doing the right thing and in and of itself it will be advancing the possibilities.

Considering that a lot of Elon's businesses are directly impacted by government support or government funds (in the case of SpaceX) then it would really be a case of matyrdom. Trump and his cronies have already shown that they are willing to pick sides and support their friends. These are the people in charge and all the horrifying things they do and have done didn't prevent them from being elected. There is a big difference between "going along" and being unable to stop Global Warming deniers.

I can only think of the scene in the recent movie "Hidden Figures" where black working women had to work within the institutional racism of 1960's NASA. If one of those women just walked into NASA headquarters and told the people they were racists what would have been accomplished? Nothing. However, they worked within the institutionally racist system and proved that they deserved to be there and created change. The racism didn't just suddenly go away and it still exists in a different, more subtle form even to this day but change occurred for the better.

I think Elon can do something similar. Working within the system as he now says he is, I hope he can do much more good than sacrificing himself and his companies.

This also comes from the fact that Trump and his cronies are annoyed but undeterred by all the protesting. He is signing executive orders and pushing his power as far as it will go in spite of all the protests. It is up to us regular people to continue pointing the finger and getting others to join in and protesting. Elon is in a position to potentially do something much better. Making a stand now would be almost pointless for him.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

While I've personally seen that as his goal the whole time, I can see why some others didn't. Those with a more cynical view of Elon or business in general might think that SpaceX and Tesla interests are driving Elon's involvement for the purpose of his own enrichment. Given that the guy basically nearly bankrupted himself to start SpaceX and invest in Tesla despite his already considerable wealth, I wouldn't think his own enrichment is really his goal. But I do get that others might not be so quick to trust the guy or come to the same conclusion.

And honestly, a tweet doesn't make much of a difference. It's still possible that he's in it for himself. I don't believe it for a second, and I hope others can see the potential for good in his participation, but I can see why some people continue to be cynical. I just ask that they entertain the idea that maybe he's doing it for more wholesome reasons.

While altruistic reasons are of course possible, there is another explanation that can explain both almost ruining himself to save SpaceX - and now joining team Trump to arguably benefit SpaceX.

Fear of personal failure and/or that of "your baby". Entrepreneurs are quite often known to take risks far beyond what is necessary or prudent for personal financial gain. Elon is rich enough to not take such risks, yet he clearly does.

It would be nice to think it is because of making a positive contribution in general, but quite often it is about leaving a personal mark in particular - or at the very least a strong emotional attachment to whatever one has been building. The fear of loosing that can motivate many actions. Then it would be basically not about saving the planet, but about saving his "babies".

Not saying this is it, but it could be. Or some mix of this and the mission. It would be quite understandable and human to think so. I wouldn't blame him for it.

 

[AustinPowers]

I do indeed think that EM sees both Tesla and SpaceX as his "babies" that he wants to help in growing up and becoming strong amd healthy. Why wouldn't he?
But I also believe he deeply cares about the "mission" he has often laid out/confirmed. All the evidence is there. The passion he shows for his projects is far greater than what would be necessary were he just in it for the money.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I do indeed think that EM sees both Tesla and SpaceX as his "babies" that he wants to help in growing up and becoming strong amd healthy. Why wouldn't he?
But I also believe he deeply cares about the "mission" he has often laid out/confirmed. All the evidence is there. The passion he shows for his projects is far greater than what would be necessary were he just in it for the money.

I agree. But all that does not automatically translate into selfless care for a mission, that was the implication above.

Presidents are actually a good example of a different kind of personal gain. Personal legacy can be as good a motivator as financial gain, especially once one has reached a certain level of financial freedom - perhaps even more so than mere finances. Elon has certainly reached a level where that personal legacy can be a more persuasive motivator than mere money.

Were Tesla and/or SpaceX to fail, it would be detrimental to Elon's legacy - both internally, for himself, and externally, in the eyes of others. That is likely one motivator. It would of course be speculation to estimate how small or big. But it could affect his actions, not mere altruistic concern for the planet.

 

[alseTrick]

Funny. Elon Musk did not object in 2015 when our POTUS did the exact same thing.

It's not just freedom of speech that many Americans now object to, it's freedom of association as well.

I'd venture a guess he's trying to walk a tightrope. Be a reasonable human, and placate the lunatic fringe that burns down ultra-liberal colleges at the same time.

My daughter just came home from a UC college for a couple days. She said students pretended to hold a Nasi Rally just piss off the handwringers. She a handwringer and admits it was funny.

(Only the college rally stuff is directly in response to you

Are you using handwringer synonymously with snowflake?

What are people called that are so bothered by snowflakes that they feel compelled to hold their own fake rally? Second-hand snowflakes?

I ask because of that fake rally you said your daughter mentioned. While I think it's stupid to hold "fake rallies", let alone a Nazi one, I'm more concerned that a bunch of college kids actually thought that would be a good idea. Sleep. Drink. Sex. Drugs. Video games. Social media. That's what college kids do. I legitimately feel bad for those fake rally kids. I hope they aren't Americans, because they are not doing great things. Does that make me a third-hand snowflake?!

For what it's worth, I don't have a problem with Musk being on these councils. I think it's stupid that anyone would (from the left or right). But it's readily apparent that this executive order was poorly vetted, and bypassed the typical channels used to assist in its creation. While I expected Drumpf to attempt to follow through on his campaign promises, I'm a little surprised he's using the executive order so liberally. Republicans and Drumpf called Obama's use of it unconstitutional and King-like, but now, not so much. (Despite all the screaming from said republicans, Obama issued less executive orders than any President of the last 120 years.) Idk, maybe Drumpf isn't all that different from traditional politicians in that regard.

 

[daniel]

I personally do not believe that Musk can change Trump's disastrous plans one iota. Trump rejects science, he rejects facts, and he even rejects economic reality. He panders to bigotry, racism, and xenophobia to garner supporters. However I also do not believe that Musk's participation on an advisory panel will hurt anything. This nation is presently so divided that nobody is going to give their support to Trump merely because Musk decided to participate on a panel. So in conclusion, I think that Musk's participation is pointless but harmless.

And I truly believe that Musk's participation is based on his honest belief that by participating he might be able to do some good. If I had had the money Musk did after he sold his share in PayPal, I'd be flying around in a chartered jet to fun and exotic places doing all the things I enjoy, not working my ass off to build and run companies that are striving to make the world a better place for all of us.

And if I'm wrong, and Musk can help, along with all the other voices of reason, to change Trump's mind on a few of the worst of his decisions, so much the better.

 

[jkn]

Elon is not making any decisions in Trump government and he is not implementing any. Now some people say that Elon should not talk with Trump, not even try to give him advice. Who would want that?

For some Trumps victory was dream to come true. Now we can get rid of climate change simply by ignoring it. But then Elon was named to presidents advisory team and we found out:
At the Exxon annual meeting in Dallas in May, the silver-haired Tillerson went out of his way to tell shareholders that “the risks of climate change are serious and they do warrant thoughtful action.”

Even Trump admitted climate change might be a risk. Dream is going to turn into nightmare. We must get Elon out of advisory team.

 

[N5329K]

I personally do not believe that Musk can change Trump's disastrous plans one iota. Trump rejects science, he rejects facts, and he even rejects economic reality. He panders to bigotry, racism, and xenophobia to garner supporters. However I also do not believe that Musk's participation on an advisory panel will hurt anything. This nation is presently so divided that nobody is going to give their support to Trump merely because Musk decided to participate on a panel. So in conclusion, I think that Musk's participation is pointless but harmless.

And I truly believe that Musk's participation is based on his honest belief that by participating he might be able to do some good. If I had had the money Musk did after he sold his share in PayPal, I'd be flying around in a chartered jet to fun and exotic places doing all the things I enjoy, not working my ass off to build and run companies that are striving to make the world a better place for all of us.

And if I'm wrong, and Musk can help, along with all the other voices of reason, to change Trump's mind on a few of the worst of his decisions, so much the better.

Yes, but Musk must avoid Ferdinand Porsche's path.
Robin

 

[McRat]

View attachment 213161
Yes, but Musk must avoid Ferdinand Porsche's path.
Robin

Are you referring to the slaves used in their factories, or that Porsche was lied to. Germans bought coupons to get their Volkswagens, and when the book was filled they received their People's Car. Nobody received their cars, their money went into the war effort.

However, it must be remembered that Germany at the time was socialist, and the government was vested heavily into social programs. They did not approve of unpopular free speech or freedom of association. They had strong gun control laws, and a high minimum wage and free healthcare.

It appears that the DNC currently is very much in favor of the German method of government of the pre-1945 era. It has even been publicly proposed by activist that a military coup should remove the government.

Politically, we are not that different today than the early-mid 30's in Germany. Who will be the Boss though? I 'd pick Soros.

 

[Owner]

I can only think of the scene in the recent movie "Hidden Figures" where black working women had to work within the institutional racism of 1960's NASA. If one of those women just walked into NASA headquarters and told the people they were racists what would have been accomplished? Nothing. However, they worked within the institutionally racist system and proved that they deserved to be there and created change. The racism didn't just suddenly go away and it still exists in a different, more subtle form even to this day but change occurred for the better.

I think Elon can do something similar. Working within the system as he now says he is, I hope he can do much more good than sacrificing himself and his companies.

This also comes from the fact that Trump and his cronies are annoyed but undeterred by all the protesting. He is signing executive orders and pushing his power as far as it will go in spite of all the protests. It is up to us regular people to continue pointing the finger and getting others to join in and protesting. Elon is in a position to potentially do something much better. Making a stand now would be almost pointless for him.

I generally agree with what you are saying, but I honestly do not thing Trump will listen to Elon. He is using Elon. I don't think Elon has the deceptive character to be tricky, articulate and controlling of Trump (but Bannon does). He is being used as a "look at this smart guy on my team, he is great".

The hidden figures analogy falls apart at this power level. It is one thing when you are deep in the trenches working on a project. Then your brains can shine, and racists and sexist people eventually give in to the very smart. But this does not happen at the executive level.

We just have to protest and complain as much as we possibly can.

I also think because Elon grew up in racist South Africa with a horrible father, he can tolerate being in the room with Trump.

 

[Owner]

And on the Hidden Figures analogy. There are racists sexist people in the U.S. who still do not believe that black women were important figures in the space program.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/03/...es.html&eventName=Watching-article-click&_r=0

 

[N5329K]

Are you referring to the slaves used in their factories...
No. I'm referring to aiding and abetting tyranny by putting the appearance of a sane, technological gloss on it.
Robin

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

What? I don't really get your recent sudden flip, but that Twitter message is the exact same message that's come from Elon since the beginning. And he'll share in the same manner he always has; what he can, when he can, as it's appropriate and relates to all things on mission. Geesh!

Ouch! Never thought I'd upset @Krugerrand

No sudden flip from my end. I may not be stating my position very well, I guess. To be clear, I'm 100% behind Elon - his mission, how far he has brought Tesla, SpaceX and SolarCity, and his vision for a very bright future for those companies and their goals - and that's precisely why I'm just wary of Elon being "used" by some very manipulative, unscrupulous people.

I should probably go back into my TMC hibernation mode...

 

[ohmman]

I should probably go back into my TMC hibernation mode...

I was glad to see you peek out. Don't be Punxsutawney Phil!

 

[Krugerrand]

Ouch! Never thought I'd upset @Krugerrand

No sudden flip from my end. I may not be stating my position very well, I guess. To be clear, I'm 100% behind Elon - his mission, how far he has brought Tesla, SpaceX and SolarCity, and his vision for a very bright future for those companies and their goals - and that's precisely why I'm just wary of Elon being "used" by some very manipulative, unscrupulous people.

I should probably go back into my TMC hibernation mode...

Nah, a what? and a geesh! are far from upsettedness. Glad you're still on the right side of things.

 

[AudubonB]

Politics makes for strange Twittiness. Look what you-know-who has written:

 

[bonnie]

Politics makes for strange Twittiness.

Did you finally get a twitter account? Or just a tourist?