Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Eratic Lane Changing [while on autopilot /FSD]

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.

Radlaw

Charles
Supporting Member
Dec 29, 2018
414
188
San Diego California
There are 2 separate unexpected lane chane issues:
  1. I'm driving along in left lane in autopilot and suddenly out of the clear blue sky the car veers to another lane, usually to the right, and
  2. I'm in the left lane, usually on the highway, in autopilot and raise the left stalk to change lanes. The car begins to change lane but suddenly stops and goes back to the original lane. There is no car in the right lane.
Why?

*Erratic, not erotic
 
Obviously, strange behavior that needs to be checked, because it's a safety issue when using AP. Would be nice if you had a camera recording the behavior from behind you in back seat, showing display and road, because often you go to the SC and the tech can't reproduce the behavior.

Issue 1, does the car show any emergency braking as it does this? Does it completely switch lanes? Or is it just a quick swerve? When you say "usually" does that mean sometimes it goes left? Initially from the vague description I was thinking there might be a camera issue, but it could also be mechanical, a loose bolt in the suspension. Does it ever happen without AP?

Issue 2, sounds like the car's side cams see something that forces it back. Any alerts on the display? It also could possibly be mechanical, because if the car senses some oddity, like a road surface height change where they've freshly paved a lane, could send the car back. Perhaps, it could be like Issue 1 where a loose bolt causes the car to sense something that forces it back.

Definitely a problem and needs to be checked out.
 
In our Model 3, if you move the turn signal to auto lane change, you have to hold it up/down long enough to begin the lane change. In our Model S, you don’t have to do that.

Another issue that interferes with auto lane change is when the car stops seeing the outside lane marker of the target lane. It won’t change lanes unless it can see both sides of the target lane. This happens most often when I’m on the interstate trying to change into the leftmost lane, and the left side of that lane is marked with a yellow line.

This is with regular FSD, not the Beta.
 
In our Model 3, if you move the turn signal to auto lane change, you have to hold it up/down long enough to begin the lane change. In our Model S, you don’t have to do that.

Another issue that interferes with auto lane change is when the car stops seeing the outside lane marker of the target lane. It won’t change lanes unless it can see both sides of the target lane. This happens most often when I’m on the interstate trying to change into the leftmost lane, and the left side of that lane is marked with a yellow line.

This is with regular FSD, not the Beta.
The Model 3 (and I assume Y), you are supposed to move the turn signal full left or right (latching), not the half press, to initiate a lane change. Completely different behavior than in legacy X/S.
 
The Model 3 (and I assume Y), you are supposed to move the turn signal full left or right (latching), not the half press, to initiate a lane change. Completely different behavior than in legacy X/S.
In our Model 3, if you move the turn signal to auto lane change, you have to hold it up/down long enough to begin the lane change. In our Model S, you don’t have to do that.
Correct. Manual doesn't even mention the half detent in the auto lane change section.

In my Y, which confirms your assumption @DCGOO , a full press to the second detent initiaites an auto-lane change, but holding down is not required.

Not mentioned in the manual but if I hold to the first detent it will still auto lane change while holding but will abort if the manuever isn't complete and I let the stalk return to neutral.

Eta - I haven't gone through it line-by-line but we have a 3 and a Y, haven't yet found a single item different in terms of driving interface or behavior in the manual (yes the seats, trunk, 12v outlet etc...)
 
There are 2 separate unexpected lane chane issues:
  1. I'm driving along in left lane in autopilot and suddenly out of the clear blue sky the car veers to another lane, usually to the right, and
  2. I'm in the left lane, usually on the highway, in autopilot and raise the left stalk to change lanes. The car begins to change lane but suddenly stops and goes back to the original lane. There is no car in the right lane.
Why?
First, clarification is in order: Do you mean bog-standard Autopilot or Navigate on Autopilot (NoA)? In standard Autopilot, the car should not be doing lane changes, period, even if the car is optioned with NoA or FSD. Thus, I tend to assume you mean NoA, not plain Autopilot, but this should be clarified. If I'm right and this is NoA, then what are your options for confirmation of lane changes? There are at least two values (to require driver confirmation before changing lanes and to enable the car to do so automatically; there might be a third that I'm forgetting). Your question seems to imply that no confirmation is set, but it'd be good to have this verified. I have mine set to require confirmation, and in this mode, the display will start blinking to alert me that it wants to make a lane change, and it specifies why it wants to do so -- for instance, to move into a faster lane or to "follow the route" (which is often completely bogus; it'll say it needs to be in a particular lane to "follow the route" even when there are no exits or forks for miles, so any lane will do). I've never set the option to let the car manage lane changes without my approval, so I don't know this for certain, but many other Tesla messages appear for such short periods that I can't read them. This doesn't happen with the NoA lane-change messages, since it leaves the message up until it receives a confirmation or until I cancel it. It's conceivable that in your case, the message is appearing and then disappearing before you can read it. If you see this behavior often enough, you might try setting the option to require confirmation before the car will change lanes. That might enable you to read the message. If your car, like mine, is set to require confirmation, and maybe if it isn't, then a sudden lane change like you describe is most likely caused by the car detecting a hazard and changing lanes to avoid it. You say there's no obvious cause, so if this is what's happening, it's a false alarm. The driving visualization might briefly show what appears to be a stopped car or cone or something in the lane ahead, but of course if you're driving at highway speed and attending to the road, it'd be easy to miss this clue on the display.

I've seen the second behavior you relate many times. It was quite common when I bought my car (in early 2019), but it became very uncommon in the last year or two. In the last few months, though, I've seen it reappear again, but not with the sort of maddening frequency I saw in 2019. I don't know the cause, other than that it's a bug; nor do I have a solution or workaround, except to remember that Autopilot, NoA, and FSD are all still officially beta-test features (with increasing levels of beta-ness, as it were), and so require vigilance when being used. Be prepared to intervene when (not if; when) the car does something strange or even dangerous. One caveat: I'm on the FSD beta build. AFAIK, this doesn't greatly affect the Autopilot/NoA stack, but if I'm wrong, then it's conceivable that the return of this aborted lane change behavior is unique to that build.
 
First, clarification is in order: Do you mean bog-standard Autopilot or Navigate on Autopilot (NoA)? In standard Autopilot, the car should not be doing lane changes, period, even if the car is optioned with NoA or FSD. Thus, I tend to assume you mean NoA, not plain Autopilot, but this should be clarified. If I'm right and this is NoA, then what are your options for confirmation of lane changes? There are at least two values (to require driver confirmation before changing lanes and to enable the car to do so automatically; there might be a third that I'm forgetting). Your question seems to imply that no confirmation is set, but it'd be good to have this verified. I have mine set to require confirmation, and in this mode, the display will start blinking to alert me that it wants to make a lane change, and it specifies why it wants to do so -- for instance, to move into a faster lane or to "follow the route" (which is often completely bogus; it'll say it needs to be in a particular lane to "follow the route" even when there are no exits or forks for miles, so any lane will do). I've never set the option to let the car manage lane changes without my approval, so I don't know this for certain, but many other Tesla messages appear for such short periods that I can't read them. This doesn't happen with the NoA lane-change messages, since it leaves the message up until it receives a confirmation or until I cancel it. It's conceivable that in your case, the message is appearing and then disappearing before you can read it. If you see this behavior often enough, you might try setting the option to require confirmation before the car will change lanes. That might enable you to read the message. If your car, like mine, is set to require confirmation, and maybe if it isn't, then a sudden lane change like you describe is most likely caused by the car detecting a hazard and changing lanes to avoid it. You say there's no obvious cause, so if this is what's happening, it's a false alarm. The driving visualization might briefly show what appears to be a stopped car or cone or something in the lane ahead, but of course if you're driving at highway speed and attending to the road, it'd be easy to miss this clue on the display.

I've seen the second behavior you relate many times. It was quite common when I bought my car (in early 2019), but it became very uncommon in the last year or two. In the last few months, though, I've seen it reappear again, but not with the sort of maddening frequency I saw in 2019. I don't know the cause, other than that it's a bug; nor do I have a solution or workaround, except to remember that Autopilot, NoA, and FSD are all still officially beta-test features (with increasing levels of beta-ness, as it were), and so require vigilance when being used. Be prepared to intervene when (not if; when) the car does something strange or even dangerous. One caveat: I'm on the FSD beta build. AFAIK, this doesn't greatly affect the Autopilot/NoA stack, but if I'm wrong, then it's conceivable that the return of this aborted lane change behavior is unique to that build.
In the first case, I have never had NOA do a lane change on its own without putting on the turn signal for about 5 seconds first. So, if this was AP or NOA doing an immediate lane change without first activating the turn signal, then it most likely was doing some sort of avoidance maneuver (real or phantom). As you stated, AP NEVER changes lanes on its own under normal operation. And NOA always provides excessive warning.

FSDb will change lanes suddenly and with virtually no warning to get to a faster lane or avoid a slow/stopped car or other obstacle.

I have seen the second case on occasion with the 2022.36.20 FSDb software. The car apparently thinks it sees another car in the lane it wants to occupy and aborts the lane change even though there are no cars anywhere nearby. A case of phantom aborting, if you will. I've seen this on NOA mostly, as I recall. Though my memory may be inaccurate on this.
 
I have a 2022 Model S with FSD 10.69.3.1. I have a section of road near my house where the nav map seems way out of alighment. With FSD Engaged - its supposed to turn right to merge onto a onramp to a highway - but on approach to the intersection FSD changes lane to the left hand lane and drives past the turn. When I look at the nav map - the location of the car is off on a side road.

I have repeated this now 3 times on the same intersection.

Very screwed up - needs some work!

Phil
 
The norm. Not the exception. Remember this is not the promised FSD. What you have is fsdBETA. YOU ARE JUST TESTING A SOFTWARE FOR TESLA at this time hoping that Tesla will get it right at some point to deliver the Real FSD(rFSD). So, let’s be realistic.
 
Last edited:
I have a 2022 Model S with FSD 10.69.3.1. I have a section of road near my house where the nav map seems way out of alighment. With FSD Engaged - its supposed to turn right to merge onto a onramp to a highway - but on approach to the intersection FSD changes lane to the left hand lane and drives past the turn. When I look at the nav map - the location of the car is off on a side road.

I have repeated this now 3 times on the same intersection.

Very screwed up - needs some work!

Phil
If the nav system shows your car on the wrong road, then you likely had a GPS error. If it persists, you should put in a service request.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: RowdyMY
I have a 2022 Model S with FSD 10.69.3.1. I have a section of road near my house where the nav map seems way out of alighment. With FSD Engaged - its supposed to turn right to merge onto a onramp to a highway - but on approach to the intersection FSD changes lane to the left hand lane and drives past the turn. When I look at the nav map - the location of the car is off on a side road.

I have repeated this now 3 times on the same intersection.
I saw a video several years ago about a car (I think it was a Ford C-MAX, but I could be mistaken about that) with a messed-up/defective GPS that showed the car driving a few dozen feet from where it actually was. My recollection is that this was a consistent mis-measurement by the GPS hardware. If yours is doing something comparable, then you may well have defective GPS hardware that should be replaced.
Remember this OSS not the promised FSD. What you have is fsdBETA. YOU ARE JUST TESTING A SOFTWARE FOR TESLA. So, let’s be realistic.
I interpreted the original post as referring to Autopilot or (more likely) NoA, NOT FSD-on-city-streets (although the thread title does refer to "autopilot/FSD"). The main practical difference is that Autopilot/NoA is intended for use on divided highways, whereas FSD-on-city-streets is meant for non-highway driving (with stop lights, 90-degree turns, etc.). My understanding is that Autopilot/NoA uses one software stack, whereas FSD uses another one. My understanding is also that these two stacks will be merged for the next major release (FSD v11), but AFAIK that's not yet available to the general public. That said, the last time I checked, even the basic Autopilot functionality is marked as "beta," so what you say is still correct, but Autopilot/NoA is much less beta-ish than FSD, and it's reasonable to hold the much simpler Autopilot/NoA to a higher standard than the very "bleeding edge" FSD. A lot of people are rather imprecise about which of those three systems (Autopilot, NoA, or FSD) they're using, and people responding to the posts often make different assumptions, which leads to a confused mess in the thread as a whole. That's happening in this thread. We need clarification from @Radlaw on this point.
 
It does not really matter There terminology. On a model Y you depress the Drive stalk twice and the car does the rest. The switch between auto pilot from freeway to navigate on autopilot when you get off the free way to the highway is automated by the car. Lane change interruptions are experienced under both modes.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: srs5694
It does not really matter There terminology. On a model Y you depress the Drive stalk twice and the car does the rest. The switch between auto pilot from freeway to navigate on autopilot when you get off the free way to the highway is automated by the car. Lane change interruptions are experienced under both modes.
The Autopilot/NoA and FSD software stacks are different, with different capabilities and different (albeit overlapping) sets of known problems. Understanding which one was being used in a given situation is important for understanding what's going on, and when communicating problems on a forum, a misunderstanding about which one is in use can cause misdiagnosis and useless suggestions for solutions or workarounds. For instance, FSD-on-city-streets will always select which lane it drives in, and will change lanes as it sees fit; but plain Autopilot on a highway will stay in whatever lane it's in when it's activated, barring certain emergency maneuvers. If somebody reports a problem (like #1 in the original post) about the car suddenly and unexpectedly changing lanes, and if the reader believes the car is in plain Autopilot, then that looks very strange; but if the car was actually driving on city streets with FSD beta active, then it may be expected behavior.
 
I see your point. So specifying context is important. Context as in FSD-on-city-streets, autopilot on freeway vers us autosteer on highway may be helpful. Yes. Settings on the car may be important too. Traffic situations too. Attentiveness also. and most importantly understanding the content of the owners manual.
 
  • Like
Reactions: srs5694