I've found German cars to exceptionally reliable. I have a 944 turbo track car with 206k miles on it that's still on the original turbo! I have over 60k on the Model S and have had no problems whatsoever. I expect to easily get 200k. I'll hit that mark well before the 8 year warranty runs out.
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Fear of the 100,000 miles milestone...in a Tesla
- Thread starter Atlantan
- Start date
I've found German cars to exceptionally reliable. I have a 944 turbo track car with 206k miles on it that's still on the original turbo! I have over 60k on the Model S and have had no problems whatsoever. I expect to easily get 200k. I'll hit that mark well before the 8 year warranty runs out.
From the perspective of Brazil, we have some interesting data points. Three acquaintances of mine are taxi owner/drivers here in Rio de Janeiro. We have pretty poor roads and non-stellar mechanic quality.
One of these three has a Fiat Palio that has just passed 450,000 km so he's preparing to get a new one. During this time he's replaced tires, brake pads, countless oil changes, many shock absorbers, a couple a/c compressors but nothing else. The other two both have Chevrolet Cruze which they are both preparing to change as they are both passing 350,000 km. Those two have had transmission repairs and some engine work plus all the predictable stuff. They are popular as taxis because they are even cheaper than the Fiat Palio. They think those experiences are normal, nothing special.
IMHO, practically any current production car will last a couple of hundred thousand miles. I'd be astonished if any Tesla lasted less than 300,000 with normal care.
Lack of durability really is not much of an issue any more, for any make or model, even those regarded poorly. IMHO, anyway.
No. I am not. They have only publicly discussed what is very likely a subset of actual causes of DU replacements. Some were in the context of an analyst conference call. Do you think Elon is going to delineate and describe every single failure cause they've had in that? Automakers are often not in the habit of revealing much or any info about why something is replaced.
Here was one explanation from July 2014: Drive unit problems explanation by Elon
Here was another about Norway replacement in Nov 2014: WSJ: Tesla to Replace Defective Drive Systems in Norway | Tesla
Tesla To Replace Defective Drive Units On 1,100 Model S In Norway
Here was another from Nov 2015: The latest drive unit explanation
I don't recall if there are any more.
Are you asserting all 3 problems here from Edmunds are due to improper lubrication?
Ominous Noise - 2013 Tesla Model S Long-Term Road Test
Stuck on the Freeway - 2013 Tesla Model S Long-Term Road Test
Drive Unit IV: The Milling - 2013 Tesla Model S Long-Term Road Test
How about this?
Car died today. Gear indicators turned red. - loss of propulsion
But they have not.
Yes, noise/milling sound reports have definitely died down. More recent DUs have outright failed, resulting in loss of propulsion.
If you are asserting that DUs installed in vehicles are new or replacements beginning 2Q 2015 shouldn't be failing, there are plenty of examples from after that time of loss of propulsion (and in a few cases "Drive Unit Needs Service - Avoid Hard Acceleration") and DU was replaced to fix it.
Here are a few:
Just took delivery of my new Model X 90D - Not At All Silky Smooth... - took delivery mid 2017. Just took delivery of my new Model X 90D - Not At All Silky Smooth... is loss of propulsion.
A bad week - Drive Unit Need Service - same time frame
New Drive unit for 2016 refresh
Two Thirds of Early Model S Drivetrains May Fail By 60,000miles - notice the times on his newer DUs? Also lubrication?
What to do when Tesla refuses to make warranty repair - this a vaunted revision -Q DU
Drive Unit failure symptoms and thresholds for replacement is related to the above
Model S Technical / Mechanical Issues
New P100d model S failed!!! - took delivery in late 2016
P100D - Drive Unit Needs Service - Avoid Hard Acceleration - took delivery in 2017
P85D Front Motor Died - 2016
"Rear Motor Disabled" - 2016
Model S Technical / Mechanical Issues - more info on an earlier case
New Drive unit for 2016 refresh, 60D Confirmed! My Buying Decision Process implies he got his car in late 2016
Drive Unit Failure after Road Trip - both DUs replaced. 1 failed, other made noises. Car built April 2015.
All of these were due to supposedly already solved improper lubrication or a battery contactor failure that you assert below, so the solution is to replace the DU?
Nope.
We haven't even covered the Model 3 DU replacements...
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mspohr
Well-Known Member
Your anecdotal reports are interesting but irrelevant.
You need data to prove your points, not mere assertions.
ACA Man
Member
Cwerdna is obviously bias, as he has shown in this thread and in the past. He doesn't even own a Tesla, nor has ever.
Having said that, Tesla has had problems with DU's and numerous other parts. What failed in the early model s DU's were the rotor bearings, which caused a constant noise. Yes, some outright failed, or would have failed had they not been swapped out, but that is the consequence of bad decisions on Tesla's part where they chose to patch rather than completely solve the problem. Same thing happened with the UMC, and now you are stuck with 7kw charging instead of 10 through the new UMC's. Going backwards is a forte with the incompetent Tesla management.
Tesla as a company is really good at stepping over dollars to pick up nickels. The just can't or won't learn from their mistakes.
I think the reason why this is allowed to happen is most people in America today dismiss it and give corporations a pass on crappy customer service, and quality of products. It just isn't a Tesla exclusive.
I bought a new Toyota Tacoma last November, and it already has had a u-joint go bad in less than 5k miles. Toyota is supposed to be the most reliable vehicle out there.
Anyway, most Americans care about cost only now, and they are getting what they pay for....
Having said that, Tesla has had problems with DU's and numerous other parts. What failed in the early model s DU's were the rotor bearings, which caused a constant noise. Yes, some outright failed, or would have failed had they not been swapped out, but that is the consequence of bad decisions on Tesla's part where they chose to patch rather than completely solve the problem. Same thing happened with the UMC, and now you are stuck with 7kw charging instead of 10 through the new UMC's. Going backwards is a forte with the incompetent Tesla management.
Tesla as a company is really good at stepping over dollars to pick up nickels. The just can't or won't learn from their mistakes.
I think the reason why this is allowed to happen is most people in America today dismiss it and give corporations a pass on crappy customer service, and quality of products. It just isn't a Tesla exclusive.
I bought a new Toyota Tacoma last November, and it already has had a u-joint go bad in less than 5k miles. Toyota is supposed to be the most reliable vehicle out there.
Anyway, most Americans care about cost only now, and they are getting what they pay for....
david_42
Member
My 1969 Volvo was the first car I owned with a million mile odometer. It had 84K on it when I purchased it, sold it at 189K. I rebuilt the engine around 104K to improve the low-end torque and make it a better commuter.
Datsun B110 (forget the year) 157k - no major work.
1989 Honda 204k - replaced the drive belt and the half axles, once each, ditto clutch.
2004 Sprinter 113K - biggest repair was the driver's door electric door lock (mice)
2006 Kia - 117k - door handle and cable replaced last year.
I'll probably drive the Sprinter van until someone kills it. I actually looked at getting a Leaf, but the new battery packs are worse than the old ones.
Well, where's your data?
I've proven wrong virtually every one of your assertions below. Yes, the noise/milling problems mostly went away. I've instead now pointed you to loss of propulsion fixed by replacing the DU.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
I linked to my data in the post. You have nothing but random whinging.
Everyone has their own data. I’m happily headed toward 150,000 miles in my 14 MS 85. It had a DU replaced under 50k and some other stuff done early on. 12V battery lasted 3.5 years. The experiment continues!
That’s awesome, but has little relevance to German cars made in the last ten years.
A lot of the issues are that the cars today have gotten incredibly complex. Eight speed electronic transmissions, high output / high temperature operations, complex valve controls, fuel systems, pollution controls, etc. If any one of these fail they tend to not be repaired and require full replacement.
If you own a Toyota any one might cost $1500. If you own a German car it will be more like $3000.
Plus the components tend to be made of more plastic than metal and somewhere about 10-15 years multiple system failures become common and the cars are often junked. Ask any independent BMW/ Audi/ Mercedes mechanic.
The point is that EVs don’t need many of these systems, so fewer points of failure and longer average service life. For example, a one speed transmission is much, much less likely to fail than an eight-speed, dual clutch transmission commonly used in BMWs and Audis. Or smog, exhaust, cooling systems...
It is awesome. I agree that cars being made today are throw-aways. My wife's BMW is a nice car, but it's turbocharged and shuts the engine down at every stoplight. How long is the turbo going to last? I won't find out because we won't own it that long. Today's German cars are not heirloom quality like the 80s and 90s cars I own. That said, I am pushing 200k miles on my V10 Touareg, the car that most people regard as the most complex and unreliable thing ever made.
Can't argue with this. I have almost 70k on my Model S and all I have done is rotate the tires. I'll do brake fluid, battery coolant, and a few other things at 5 years. I'd like to look into changing the gear oil at some point, but there isn't much to go wrong on EVs compared to conventional modern vehicles.
Formula 303 Aerospace Protectant is your answer. Even our generator gets the yearly treatment, they use it on airplanes too.
I don't even want to know what you paid for it, but I wish you many trouble free miles, your Tesla Service is anything like mine in CMH, you will have a happy life.
No wonder the Tesla Semi will beat the competition, 2 mill. mi. instead of 100k.
A BMW service manager told me that he personally would never own any of the top dollar cars beyond eight years. This is because of the extreme complication of their electronics and the high cost of repair. I’ll take the advice of the man in charge of keeping them running.
david_42
Member
I'm surprised this article hasn't been posted: Tesla Model X fleet replaces 167 Model S taxis for Netherlands airport An entire fleet with 250,000-300,000 km on them.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Looks like they are replacing them for the larger seating capacity of the X.
Brando
Active Member
side note: my EMU [Engine Management Unit] is 28 years old and counting. Seems if kept dry, auto electronics not really a problem.
What astounds me is the auto-seat belt system - all relays is still working. 1989 Saab had to put in auto seat belts as they didn't yet have air-bags. I was certain I would replace in a year or two. I was thinking of putting in the 99 Saab system - no buckles - it was great. Kind of sorry I didn't do it anyway. Still waiting for them to break. As this car only seen a garage for maybe 4 years of 28 - I was so sure that belt system would break long before now.
What astounds me is the auto-seat belt system - all relays is still working. 1989 Saab had to put in auto seat belts as they didn't yet have air-bags. I was certain I would replace in a year or two. I was thinking of putting in the 99 Saab system - no buckles - it was great. Kind of sorry I didn't do it anyway. Still waiting for them to break. As this car only seen a garage for maybe 4 years of 28 - I was so sure that belt system would break long before now.
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