FIRMWARE UPDATE! AP2 Local road driving...and holy crap

[BestRadar]

Maybe Tesla should finally stop with their current marketing:

Autopilot

Enhanced Autopilot
Enhanced Autopilot adds these new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage.

 

[sdorn]

Maybe Tesla should finally stop with their current marketing:

Autopilot

Enhanced Autopilot
Enhanced Autopilot adds these new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage.

They should at least be honest about what it does now and a realistic timeline for when those other features will be available. No argument there.

 

[ABC2D]

What is your source for that? There is no mention of that on the order page.

View attachment 218590

Since you cant scroll 3 posts up, here it is one more time for you

 

[sdorn]

Since you cant scroll 3 posts up, here it is one more time for you

There is nothing in that screenshot that says anything about autosteer working "on all roads and in all conditions". In fact, there is nothing in that screenshot that indicates it is designed to work in places AP1 wasn't designed for either. So even if the manual hasn't been updated for AP2 as someone alleged above, it still says what it says and nothing in the AP2 release notes has indicated it is supposed to work in places AP1 didn't work. They haven't even gotten it working in all the places AP1 does work! It's ludicrous to think AP2 should be more capable than AP1 at this point in time.

It's obvious that AP2 has been a complete *sugar* show thus far, and there are lots of things to complain about. Not being able to follow lane markings that aren't there isn't one of them. When FSD is rolled out, and the car continues to have these types of problems, then it is time to complain.

 

[BestRadar]

Since you cant scroll 3 posts up, here it is one more time for you

I still dont understand why offer Auto Steer if they need you to keep your hands on the wheel. If we have to keep our hands on the wheel why not just steer ourselves. What is the point of the feature? How is this supposed to be less stressful?

 

[bhzmark]

Maybe Tesla should finally stop with their current marketing:

Autopilot

Enhanced Autopilot
Enhanced Autopilot adds these new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage.

And then it says,

"Tesla’s Enhanced Autopilot software has begun rolling out and features will continue to be introduced as validation is completed, subject to regulatory approval."

A timeline would be nice. But my guess is the timeline is, "as fast as we f'in can."

I suppose Tesla could refund the $5,000 to those who request it, subject to making them pay $6,000 when and if they want to repurchase full EAP when it is available in a few weeks or few months.

Full EAP will be ready when it is ready. It will cost $6,000 to purchase later if you buy the car before it is fully EAP ready.

But, You can save $1,000 if you prepay that $6,000 purchase cost now before it is fully ready. Meanwhile you can use (or not) partial EAP while you wait for full EAP.

I suppose this may appear to be a complex purchase decision -- but not really. Despite this apparent complexity and confusion for some, it seems a very rational and fair pricing strategy.

 

[BestRadar]

And then it says,

"Tesla’s Enhanced Autopilot software has begun rolling out and features will continue to be introduced as validation is completed, subject to regulatory approval."

A timeline would be nice. But my guess is the timeline is, "as fast as we f'in can."

I suppose Tesla could refund the $5,000 to those who request it, subject to making them pay $6,000 when and if they want to repurchase full EAP when it is available in a few weeks or few months.

Full EAP will be ready when it is ready. It will cost $6,000 to purchase later if you buy the car before it is fully EAP ready.

But, You can save $1,000 if you prepay that $6,000 purchase cost now before it is fully ready. Meanwhile you can use (or not) partial EAP while you wait for full EAP.

I suppose this may appear to be a complex purchase decision -- but not really. Despite this apparent complexity and confusion for some, it seems a very rational and fair pricing strategy.

I only bought the car because I wanted FSD, If they cant produce FSD in the future I dont want a refund on the $8000 I paid for AP2 & FSD I would want a refund on my entire purchase and I will move on to another vehicle. They need to stop marketing and promoting their self driving video because its apparent now that they are nowhere close to being able to do this.

 

[sdorn]

I still dont understand why offer Auto Steer if they need you to keep your hands on the wheel. If we have to keep our hands on the wheel why not just steer ourselves. What is the point of the feature? How is this supposed to be less stressful?

I don't think that would have been a requirement if it weren't for all those dumbasses on youtube making videos of them riding in the back seat and doing other crazy things, and the Baressi accident locked it in for the foreseeable future.

 

[sdorn]

I only bought the car because I wanted FSD, If they cant produce FSD in the future I dont want a refund on the $8000 I paid for AP2 & FSD I would want a refund on my entire purchase and I will move on to another vehicle. They need to stop marketing and promoting their self driving video because its apparent now that they are nowhere close to being able to do this.

I definitely agree that Tesla has not be very up front about how long it is going to take to get EAP and FSD fully functional. I upgraded my order and paid for both last fall when they were announced thinking that most of the EAP features would be rolled out by now with some FSD features coming later this year and with full functionality (but still requiring a driver to be present) by the end of 2018. I no longer think that is realistic at all, but I'm not yet at the point where I want my money back. I actually think that the price of FSD was set taking into account the possibility it might take 1 - 3 years to roll out. If FSD were fully functional and working properly, I would expect it to be a $10k - $15k stand-alone option (or more).

 

[u00mem9]

I suppose Tesla could refund the $5,000 to those who request it, subject to making them pay $6,000 when and if they want to repurchase full EAP when it is available in a few weeks or few months.

in fact, my expectation is that Tesla will announce in the Q1 results that they consider the EAP to be "delivered" per GAAP requirement, and will then bank the revenue. The desire to do this will depend on the rest of the results, but if the rest of the story is very grim, they will likely justify this move.

While this is the most important thing going on at the moment on TMC, I think internally, it's a distant second to Model 3 development. However, I suspect sales may tank in Q2 when people finally realize HW2 may NEVER be able to match the path determining capability of the Mobileye system.

I was driving on roads today that were completely covered in dried salt solution. In many spots, the white line was nearly impossible to see for my eyes. AP1 just trucked along happily. I think the most informative use case for AP1 is when you enable in god conditions (the system won't allow engagement unless there is at least one decent edge line) and then that line is degraded. Mobileye talked about their lane guidance not requiring lines to determine path, and you can really see it determining the road trajectory in those moments when the lines are lost but the system keeps going... I haven't seen anything approaching that level of performance in the AP2 videos I have watched. Maybe it's coming, but I now anticipate they will increase the engagement speed despite not achieving parity on the path prediction.

 

[croman]

@sdorn Local roads + highway = all roads. All conditions refers to the fact it does not have any limitations based on specific conditions (i.e. it works when it works and doesn't when it doesn't). Tesla can obviously limit the software and has chosen to currently limit it by speed and not road. I can engage autosteer on any road whereas 4 weeks ago it was only on highways (that too specific ones). What is your source for your statements that AS on HW2 is limited only to highways given the fact its been repeatedly shown the release notes say local autosteer is, obviously, intended for local roads?

 

[croman]

Also can't we directly gauge Tesla's intent here as allowing HW2 explicitly for local roads because they flipped the switch and allowed us to use it everywhere? They could've taken a different tack than HW1 and chose, deliberately, to allow local road use. Their actions speak louder than a dated owner's manual.

 

[sdorn]

@sdorn Local roads + highway = all roads. All conditions refers to the fact it does not have any limitations based on specific conditions (i.e. it works when it works and doesn't when it doesn't). Tesla can obviously limit the software and has chosen to currently limit it by speed and not road. I can engage autosteer on any road whereas 4 weeks ago it was only on highways (that too specific ones). What is your source for your statements that AS on HW2 is limited only to highways given the fact its been repeatedly shown the release notes say local autosteer is, obviously, intended for local roads?

When HW2 Autosteer was first rolled out it only worked on limited access roads. From my experience and what I read online of others' experiences it was limited to just interstates and similar roads with on and off ramps and no traffic signals. "Local Roads" was the terminology Tesla used when they removed the restriction that it only work on limited access roads. HW1 cars have always been able to engage Autosteer anywhere that the car can pick up lane markings, and that is how HW2 cars work now. There was nothing in the release notes that indicated Tesla was changing the restrictions from the manual that provide that Autosteer should only be used on limited access roads and highways (which aren't necessarily limited access) and that it should not be used on city streets, near construction zones, etc. There has never been any statement by Tesla that I have seen that indicates they intended to expand the types of roads on which Autosteer is meant to be used.

 

[croman]

@sdorn it says "local streets and roads." Street has a legal definition. the Street

Streets are clearly listed (in fact it lists BOTH streets and roads). I think you're being obtuse if you can't see Tesla is making a big distinction in HW2 use vs. HW1. See @MasterT 's release notes.

FIRMWARE UPDATE! AP2 Local road driving...and holy crap

 

[NerdUno]

Look at Tesla's Vaporware Video if you need more proof of the types of streets & roads Tesla is pitching with HW2 vehicles...

 

[stopcrazypp]

@sdorn Local roads + highway = all roads. All conditions refers to the fact it does not have any limitations based on specific conditions (i.e. it works when it works and doesn't when it doesn't). Tesla can obviously limit the software and has chosen to currently limit it by speed and not road. I can engage autosteer on any road whereas 4 weeks ago it was only on highways (that too specific ones). What is your source for your statements that AS on HW2 is limited only to highways given the fact its been repeatedly shown the release notes say local autosteer is, obviously, intended for local roads?

I don't agree. Local streets and roads can refer to a lot of things. It can be a city street, a residential street, a moderate speed (35mph-55mph) thruway (divided or undivided). I don't see it as eliminating the other conditions and being all inclusive (construction zones being the most obvious, and I would argue the city street limitation can definitely still apply while allowing "local streets").

AP1 covered usage in the moderate speed thruways with lower speed limits (although Tesla didn't use the "local" terminology, you can use that to describe it also).

 

[Helmuth]

I almost think Tesla should stop pushing further updates until all owner know what the car is capable while using AP!
It doesn't make any sense to continue complaining about situations we KNOW for weeks it is not designed for YET!
I use AP where I think it is designed for!
Like no parked cars, no huge intersections, just good lane markings on both sides, on freeways with stop and go traffic, no roundabouts, etc.
We need to accept the limitations of AP 2.0 and realize that it's far from FSD!
I love to use AP if it makes sense and use TACC most of the time.
Since I got the last update I didn't have to take over once!!! And I had not one hard brake using TACC since 17.9.3!
It might be because I drove 12,000 miles since AP 2.0 was first released. I don't know...
All I'm saying IF we accept the limitations AP 2.0 does a really good job!
I hope the next update is THE big one! It should be 8.1 Elon mentioned a few days ago.
And it might be based on a never released (to the fleet) firmware... Just my thought.
Let's wait another week (or so) and see if Tesla can make everyone happy...

 

[Electroman]

So, I mean, yeah, I concede the point that you personally wouldn't use autosteer in an intersection and you advise others to do the same.

no.. because it is common sense. If there are no lane markings, how the hell can the car know which way to go? Not in this version of AP, may be in EAP.

 

[u00mem9]

EAP works very well in the environment it was designed for...the showroom.

 

[Helmuth]

I only bought the car because I wanted FSD, If they cant produce FSD in the future I dont want a refund on the $8000 I paid for AP2 & FSD I would want a refund on my entire purchase and I will move on to another vehicle. They need to stop marketing and promoting their self driving video because its apparent now that they are nowhere close to being able to do this.

Who expected FSD right away? Tesla mentioned to show a demo drive from LA to NY by the end of 2017!
Nobody could expect FSD to be released BEFORE that! FSD might happen sometimes in 2018...
And I remember Elon mentioned on twitter a few months ago (to an future owner) if he doesn't like the car he can return it (for a full refund) within 90 days...

 

[stefan.bc]

And I remember Elon mentioned on twitter a few months ago (to an future owner) if he doesn't like the car he can return it (for a full refund) within 90 days...

Please post that, I would like a full refund

Edit: I've searched twitter but could not find that post