LOL.. Yeah, I think there would be a lot of returns. I contacted Tesla asking for a refund on FSD because it was not available and I was pretty confident that it was not going to happen and my letter and emails were just ignored.
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FIRMWARE UPDATE! AP2 Local road driving...and holy crap
- Thread starter Skalinator
- Start date
LOL.. Yeah, I think there would be a lot of returns. I contacted Tesla asking for a refund on FSD because it was not available and I was pretty confident that it was not going to happen and my letter and emails were just ignored.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The only 90 day return policy I am aware of is the one for leasing in 2014. This policy no longer applies as it was unsustainable.
Tesla Model S Leasing Just Got Cheaper; 90 day Returns
Interestingly, someone has edited it to approximate real time. Lots of points where the vehicle pauses.
Quote from the new head of Autopilot development:
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
That's showing FSD (title even says Self-Driving) not EAP. Tesla did not say FSD is anywhere near release ready, with no dates promised.
And just to pre-empt the "why-did-they-post-it-if-it's-nowhere-near-ready" whining, I imagine this is all about scaring the crap out of mobileye and announcing their progress/intent.
Good for Autopilot program recruitment as well, I'd guess.
That's FSD, not Autosteer. They are not the same thing.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Plus, I will add that they showed AP1 a year before it even started rolling out, so it's not like stuff like this is unprecedented from Tesla even when talking purely about AP.
I suspect that'll be the difference between AP2 "FSD" and future improvements to FSD. AP2 will be like those Waymo panda cars in Palo Alto neighborhoods… Whenever it's at all doubtful about the situation, it just pauses and reassesses. I watched one spend 5 light cycles and still fail to get through a single left turn because everyone else has learned to just cut it off from the straight lane.
Helmuth
Member
It wasn't a new policy in general! Elon replied to an (possible) buyer who wasn't sure if he is going to like the car!
It must have been November last year...
I can't believe there are people buying a Tesla JUST because of the promoted FSD video? And it was never said FSD will be released any time soon! A live demo will be shown at the end of 2017! That's what they said when they released the video...
I love my Model X because it's fast, quiet, a smooth ride, looks great, has amazing features, the seats are great and comfortable, it's environment friendly AND we get updates on a regular base.
EAP and FSD are features I'm going to enjoy some day! Which I knew BEFORE I placed the order in December!
I don't like my MX because it's noisy, doesn't look great as paint/panels/seals are not up to my standards, most of the amazing features are buggy, seats are better in my other car and free of wrinkles + some other bad stuff like bad ghosting
So now, would you still want the car if the above were true for your car?
You guys know you can use it and disengage it during an intersection and rengage it, right? If the street has such frequent intersections then its not worth using AS regardless of HW1 or 2. The point is that Telsa finally is out and admitting people will use it on local urban areas instead of just on highways.
My question would be "Why, oh why did I decide to wear a blindfold when I took delivery?"
I would say it's pretty simple; the current approach that AP2 takes isn't the approach that Tesla have been working on for the past (however many) years.
The missing piece here is HD maps.
Until the HD maps are ready, the cars will blindly drive themselves into central dividers, go crazy when the lane lines disappear, take sharp corners at 80mph, decide they love driving into trucks, and generally behave like they're on the sauce. Be very careful and exercise caution at all times.
The Tesla guys (and all people working on FSD) don't spend their time trying to write algorithms that will slow you down into curves based on computer vision (what the car 'sees' through it's camera system). Why would you? Once the maps are in place, it'll know about that curve way before you get to it, and will know exactly when to slow you down. Same for intersections, roundabouts, on-ramps, off-ramps... anything really. The car will know what to do because it's seen it way before it gets there. The cameras will just be used for localisation within the map itself, detecting and compensating for other vehicles and objects, updating the maps, and checking the path is drivable (i.e "don't crash into stuff")
TomTom, Here, Navigon, Garmin, Google etc etc - I'm sure they're all working as fast as they possibly can to get the HD maps ready. It's a key piece of the puzzle, and one that Tesla probably assumed would be ready in time for when AP2 would *really* be switched on. Until then, the best case is that you get AP1 functionality, which they're getting to surprisingly quickly considering they probably only started it in August!
TomTom Automotive - The future of driving, now
Basically, if you're using AP2 (or AP1), be careful for now... the whole follow-the-lines-and-the-car-in-front approach is very basic - Tesla are only doing this as a stop-gap to appease HW2 customers who want HW1 functionality. Once the maps and path planning are in place, then you'll see the AP2 system rocket ahead - not just because the HW2 cars have more cameras - but because they have the GPU processing on board that can handle the maps.
So, when people say "how on earth are they going to get to EAP or FSD by 2018?"... Well, it's simple, they switch on the maps. Dancing lane lines? Doesn't matter - the display will show you the HD map lanes populated with cars the camera has seen. Crazy 'pull to the right'... doesn't matter... it won't do this once it knows the road. Doesn't work in the sun? Well - as long as the radar sees the cars, and can sort-of confirm with vision, it'll be fine.
tl;dr - it'll be fine. Just wait for the maps.
The missing piece here is HD maps.
Until the HD maps are ready, the cars will blindly drive themselves into central dividers, go crazy when the lane lines disappear, take sharp corners at 80mph, decide they love driving into trucks, and generally behave like they're on the sauce. Be very careful and exercise caution at all times.
The Tesla guys (and all people working on FSD) don't spend their time trying to write algorithms that will slow you down into curves based on computer vision (what the car 'sees' through it's camera system). Why would you? Once the maps are in place, it'll know about that curve way before you get to it, and will know exactly when to slow you down. Same for intersections, roundabouts, on-ramps, off-ramps... anything really. The car will know what to do because it's seen it way before it gets there. The cameras will just be used for localisation within the map itself, detecting and compensating for other vehicles and objects, updating the maps, and checking the path is drivable (i.e "don't crash into stuff")
TomTom, Here, Navigon, Garmin, Google etc etc - I'm sure they're all working as fast as they possibly can to get the HD maps ready. It's a key piece of the puzzle, and one that Tesla probably assumed would be ready in time for when AP2 would *really* be switched on. Until then, the best case is that you get AP1 functionality, which they're getting to surprisingly quickly considering they probably only started it in August!
TomTom Automotive - The future of driving, now
Basically, if you're using AP2 (or AP1), be careful for now... the whole follow-the-lines-and-the-car-in-front approach is very basic - Tesla are only doing this as a stop-gap to appease HW2 customers who want HW1 functionality. Once the maps and path planning are in place, then you'll see the AP2 system rocket ahead - not just because the HW2 cars have more cameras - but because they have the GPU processing on board that can handle the maps.
So, when people say "how on earth are they going to get to EAP or FSD by 2018?"... Well, it's simple, they switch on the maps. Dancing lane lines? Doesn't matter - the display will show you the HD map lanes populated with cars the camera has seen. Crazy 'pull to the right'... doesn't matter... it won't do this once it knows the road. Doesn't work in the sun? Well - as long as the radar sees the cars, and can sort-of confirm with vision, it'll be fine.
tl;dr - it'll be fine. Just wait for the maps.
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I am with you. I expected so much more once I broke through the $100k barrier. Prior to this purchase the most I ever spent on a new car was $60k and the $60k car did not require updates for basic features to work. Tesla should be embarrassed with what they are putting out there for the money. Sure the car is quick but that is not the only reason I liked it. I want to feel like I got my money's worth and besides the AP2 not working as expected and no idea on FSD there are many other things that irritate me:
1. No Blind Spot Mirrors
2. No Rain Sensor (Requires Cameras to function and I guess they still dont know how to do this)
3. No Headlight Sensors (Requires Cameras to function to do Auto High Beams but I guess they still did not figure this out.
4. Side view mirrors requires several attempts to get the folding mirrors to open all the way
5. Sun roof has constant wind noise
6. Rattles from the dash board (No quality Control)
7. Visors are small and dont block much sun and have no lights and just look cheap
8. Brand new leather seats are full of creases
I am sure there are more things that cars that cost 1/2 the price do well. I have to admit that I really wanted FSD and their video worked and got me to look at this vehicle. Without the option and promised AP2 I would not have went with Tesla. I had no idea the relationship with MobileEye was over and they were starting from scratch on their own. I should have researched better and that is my fault.
That's interesting stuff, I didn't even realize this was in the works but makes sense. When are those maps supposed to be available and is telsa designing their own maps or are they gonna use google or navigon?
Well... Only Tesla can answer that
However, I doubt Tesla are making their own maps. It'd be a pretty mad thing to try and do, though that's not stopped them in the past. Why would they bother though... what's the advantage? Other companies will dedicate 100% of their time to it, forever... map quality will keep them in business, so they have to be good at it. Capitalism at work - it's cheaper for Tesla (and all car manufacturers) to buy that stuff in, I'd have thought.
The most likely scenario is that they've licensed mapworks from Nvidia, as part of the DrivePX2 deal.
Mapworks is, I think, an amalgamation of multiple data sources, with an ability to combine live updates from any 'harvester' (vehicle with a camera + GPU), consolidated into one system. It's fairly obvious that there won't be any one company that's able to map the entire world in ≤10cm accuracy; it's just not feasible. As of today, I think Here are the main supplier for a lot of the HD mapping data used by Mapworks. (HD Live Map explained - HERE 360) (HERE, NVIDIA Partner on AI Technology for HD Mapping from Cloud to Car)
Where there are no HD maps to begin with, cars with cameras + GPUs can create very basic versions of these maps using ego-motion/visual odometry (basically, "motion-from-video"). They're a poor alternative (think 240p YouTube instead of 4K), but any prior knowledge is beneficial. This is partly what's meant by 'fleet learning', though not entirely. If you're the guy driving that road for the first time ever, with no prior map of any definition, then it'll probably go back to current AP1/AP2 techniques, of following lanes/path delimiters (boundaries), and the car in front, and asking you to do most of it
Since you can't upload all that camera data to the cloud, the car actually does some basic pre-processing of the vision data onboard its own GPU... crunching it when you're *not* driving (hence why your HW2 car has the potential to lose more battery than HW1 cars whilst parked). That pre-processed data is highly compressed, and only machine-readable... it gets transmitted back to the cloud servers, where further - more computationally expensive - processing is carried out and can be distributed ahead-of-time to other cars,
It's a more complex integration issue though... so, you license mapworks... then you have to build that into the car's actual driving systems, write path planning AI to figure out what to do and where to go on that road depending on the obstacles in your way (and respond to them appropriately). Then, it needs to hook into the regular, 2D SD maps that we use for general navigation ... it'll download the map tiles it needs ahead-of-time, in case you lose connectivity.
This is all... stuff... stuff that has to be done in a software update, not firmware.
Whether or not it's part of 8.1, I don't know. It'd be a ridiculous point release if that's the case.
Ok, I've bored myself now. Sorry.
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disagree
hos epi to polu
It follows the car in front. At least, it does in my HW2 car. Your assertion that it cannot is frankly bizarre.
And what a delight to see that the the "local roads" doesn't mean "local roads" brigade has been dispatched!
Works fine in my AP1 car. 16,000 miles, much of which was on AP. Is the car perfect? - no. Is it the best road trip car I've ever owned? - absolutely! Does AP work extremely well under most circumstances - yes. Do you need to monitor it - definitely, but it makes long trips so much more relaxing.
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