Wiki FSD Beta 10.4

[Reddy Kilowatt]

Is FSD restricted in certain areas? Yesterday I did about 120 miles of FSD driving and noticed the car appeared to drop back to the AP. The screen flipped back and forth as I went through Leesburg Va. and city of Fredrick Md. It was highway driving and had no effect on FSD. I’m using the wide FSD Screen.

 

[JulienW]

Is FSD restricted in certain areas? Yesterday I did about 120 miles of FSD driving and noticed the car appeared to drop back to the AP. The screen flipped back and forth as I went through Leesburg Va. and city of Fredrick Md. It was highway driving and had no effect on FSD. I’m using the wide FSD Screen.

All highway driving is done on the standard AP software stack (vision only). It is going to be integrated into the FSDBeta stack in V11.x per Elon.

 

[SilverString]

I guess you mean you accidentally disengaged it. FSD rarely disengages but if does it flashes a large red steering wheel on the screen and says "Take Over Immediately"with lots of loud beeping. A lot like a panic emergency braking event.

Incorrect. Are you on 10.4? FSD disengages on its own all the time now, and on simple left turns with no oncoming traffic and no red screen flashing or audible warning. Same happens with hard phantom braking to a lesser extent. Most commonly this occurs on roads with no lines. I am getting about a 30% disengagement on left turns that are not at controlled intersections. Quite often it stops in the middle of the oncoming lane with no oncoming traffic - no warning - it just shuts off. I too have turned it off and am waiting for 10.5.

 

[aronth5]

All highway driving is done on the standard AP software stack (vision only). It is going to be integrated into the FSDBeta stack in V11.x per Elon.

While highway is done using the existing AP software stack, merging and exiting the highway integrates with city/streets FSD and provides improved capabilities. There are many on-ramps and exit ramps I can now take with FSD enabled that I to handle manually before.

 

[lolder]

I think because of the vastly different results on 10.4 it may be due to different hardware and firmware across all the models. There are several reports of stalls halfway though simple turns. That is not public beta testing, that is flat out failure.

 

[Knightshade]

Tesla believes it's AP is not safe above 80mph so it set a new limit.

Not quite right.

For non-beta cars with radar, it's still 90.

Vision only cars (which includes radar cars on the beta) it's 80--- because the system can't reliably see as far ahead (and at higher speed you get to the thing it can't see well faster).


They're pointing out if you have a radar car, and turn off the beta, you're still "stuck" with the vision only 80 mph limit instead of the 90 you'd have if it turned radar back on.

 

[sdmack]

Incorrect. Are you on 10.4? FSD disengages on its own all the time now, and on simple left turns with no oncoming traffic and no red screen flashing or audible warning. Same happens with hard phantom braking to a lesser extent. Most commonly this occurs on roads with no lines. I am getting about a 30% disengagement on left turns that are not at controlled intersections. Quite often it stops in the middle of the oncoming lane with no oncoming traffic - no warning - it just shuts off.

Yes, I've seen a lot of the big red "Take over immediately" on straight, wide open highway, even with visualization showing good lane lines. In each case, the road had a lot of asphalt crack patch, perhaps that was confusing the vision. Incorporating radar return in the algorithm would go a long way in reducing this I think.

 

[TravelFree]

Not quite right.

For non-beta cars with radar, it's still 90.

Vision only cars (which includes radar cars on the beta) it's 80--- because the system can't reliably see as far ahead (and at higher speed you get to the thing it can't see well faster).


They're pointing out if you have a radar car, and turn off the beta, you're still "stuck" with the vision only 80 mph limit instead of the 90 you'd have if it turned radar back on.

You are correct by other's experience. I personally haven't tested it. Both my Teslas have radar and I recognize the fact that in the future, All Teslas will have software for Vision only. Many believe Tesla's decision to roll the new FSD beta back to 80mph was a CYA even though it isn't consistent with their rolling stop sign setting which is also a moving violation. Anyway, my personal feelings are that if this is a real issue that you are limited to 80 mph when driving a Tesla then you are welcome to drive another brand car and get all the speeding tickets you can until you lose your license. Just don't cause any accidents, please.

I really don't see this as a technical limitation of Vision as there is no evidence of that. I got the idea that having two conflicting sensors, video and radar was creating a problem like the old saying: I bought a watch so could tell the time and I was happy. To be sure, I bought two watches, Now I don't know which is right.

 

[lolder]

Not quite right.

For non-beta cars with radar, it's still 90.

Vision only cars (which includes radar cars on the beta) it's 80--- because the system can't reliably see as far ahead (and at higher speed you get to the thing it can't see well faster).


They're pointing out if you have a radar car, and turn off the beta, you're still "stuck" with the vision only 80 mph limit instead of the 90 you'd have if it turned radar back on.

Correct. If you opt out of beta you may get radar and 90 mph limit back. Haven't tried it.

 

[Phlier]

I don't drink coffee and never needed drugs to learn.

The fact that you understood I was suggesting the need for drugs by saying "make a pot of coffee" just proves that you and I are on such different ground as to make this conversation pointless.

I do have counterpoints to every one of your statements, but at this point, I just don't see any benefit of continuing this conversation.

Now pardon me, while I help myself to some more "drugs."

 

[Phlier]

Yes, he wants to trade beta FSD for ARNR for a while. More useful to me right now.

I haven't been keeping up on the mainstream release branches.... they have finally released active noise reduction??

I guess that's a self answering question, given what you typed.

Man, I need to keep up with the times!

You sure you really want to miss out on all the fun that is FSD Beta, though? Yeah, I think I'd take noise reduction, too.

 

[jebinc]

I haven't been keeping up on the mainstream release branches.... they have finally released active noise reduction??

I guess that's a self answering question, given what you typed.

Man, I need to keep up with the times!

You sure you really want to miss out on all the fun that is FSD Beta, though? Yeah, I think I'd take noise reduction, too.

@Phlier Yes, 2021.40.5.1 has ARNR! I prefer that for a while and can always reenroll in beta when ARNR makes its way into the beta FSD release.

 

[Knightshade]

I really don't see this as a technical limitation of Vision as there is no evidence of that.

There kinda is though.

Radars specs had a range of 160 meters.

The main forward cameras spec range is 150 meters.

Run those through braking distance calculators and you'll see why they reduced the max speed when going vision only.

Now, there IS a narrow forward cam with greater range than either- but green at least has noted it doesn't do nearly as good a job as the main cam and that Teslas own code doesn't even try and see nearly as far ahead as what the narrow cam spec says.

It's possible they'll get the range/object detection with the narrow cam improved and eventually get back to parity with radar (they originally claimed they would when launching vision after all--- but it's 6+ months later and they still haven't)

 

[EVNow]

@Phlier Yes, 2021.40.5.1 has ARNR! I prefer that for a while and can always reenroll in beta when ARNR makes its way into the beta FSD release.

I feel they are following the main branch fairly closely. Within a month you should get ARNR ...

Only benefit of getting out of FSD branch would be to get Radar+Vision.

 

[jebinc]

I feel they are following the main branch fairly closely. Within a month you should get ARNR ...

Only benefit of getting out of FSD branch would be to get Radar+Vision.

@EVNow. Well, if in a month it’s much improved and includes ARNR, I can opt back in. In the mean time, I will enjoy ARNR while you enjoy 10.4!

 

[K5TRX]

He/she wants to get the latest/regular/standard firmware (example 40.x) updates for the car.

At one time FSD was running 3+ months behind the latest update.
Now, FSD (36.x) is only 4 weeks behind the latest non-FSD update (40,.x).
Wait 4 weeks and you get FSD and the new features. The gap is tightening.

 

[EVNow]

@EVNow. Well, if in a month it’s much improved and includes ARNR, I can opt back in. In the mean time, I will enjoy ARNR while you enjoy 10.4!

What you are saying is - you won't be back on fsd beta anytime soon

 

[jebinc]

What you are saying is - you won't be back on fsd beta anytime soon

@EVNow After just getting my Plaid’s half shafts replaced, I may not!

 

[Phlier]

Ah, FORTRAN 77.... Fond memories.....

Man, I thought I was old.

I started out with Basic on a TRS80 back in the early '80's.

Ended up really getting into Mac's in the mid '80's, so I had to learn Pascal, as all of the OS documentation was in Pascal for the Mac back then. Transitioned to C and C++ in the '90's, but only as a hobby. Started out with Dave Mark's "Learn C on the Macintosh" then on to his other book "Learn C++ on the Macintosh", and of course, backed this up with Kernigan and Ritchie's "The C Programming Language," as well as other really nerdy reference books.

But it turns out I was much better at flying airplanes than I was at writing computer programs; coding has always been just a hobby for me.

AI/NN stuff is fascinating, but I just don't have a big enough brain pan to ever be able to get into it in any meaningful way.

Back on topic...

After noticing some pretty good progress in 10.4 with smoothness of deceleration and a few other things, I'm also now experiencing the other problems guys have been reporting in 10.4, especially its propensity to run red lights, attempts to go around traffic stopped at stop signs or traffic signals, phantom FCW's, etc.

I've read a few posts about guys wondering if FSD takes the preceding car's tail lights into its decision making process. Next time you take FSD for a test spin, try this... every time the car in front of you shows brake lights, take note of if your car immediately applies some amount of deceleration, even if the preceding car shows no real deceleration.

Where I'm at (we have a lot of "snow birds") this condition happens a lot... the preceding car will show brake lights, with no to only very slight deceleration. Yet every time, my car will immediately start to slow as soon as the brake lights on the preceding car appear. The preceding car needs to be "fairly close" (which is admittedly subjective) for this to happen... if the preceding car is 1/2 mile ahead, it won't do it.

Maybe it's only a coincidence, which is why I'd like to hear other people's experiences with this.

 

[Ron Sisk]

Question: Safety Score is a 94 now. When I hit 99/100 will I get the FSD automatically?
Is the beta a rolling enrollment?

Model X 2020
Software: 2021.32.22