FSD Beta 10.69

[Supcom]

Obviously at SOME point, a collision would be unavoidable (for example recent horrific LA accident was unavoidable for most of those people). But the idea is to be WAY down the distribution. And also, in a simple low traffic density situation, many humans would likely detect someone coming at 100mph in time, assuming they were actually visible.

The same fundamental idea applies though - there’s a big benefit to completing exposed maneuvers QUICKLY, since it reduces risk due to misjudgment of oncoming vehicle speed. And it lowers the requirement on required visual range (measured in time).

It’s something we don’t yet see happening in the apparent testing of 10.69; the vehicle is quite slow and lacks assertiveness which increases risk.

Moving too quickly has its downside. It's jarring to the passengers and could be a safety issue when there is reduced traction.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Moving too quickly has its downside. It's jarring to the passengers and could be a safety issue when there is reduced traction.

Reduced traction can be detected and rapid movements can be made with low jerk (which is what bothers passengers the most - it's the kick that's annoying, not so much being pushed back in the seat, since we're quite accustomed to gravity). Low jerk is also good for exploring the traction limits.

Low jerk movements are also good from the standpoint of timely interventions.

 

[Silicon Desert]

An unprotected left is a left turn where you do not have right of way and must wait until it is safe to proceed. You typically have a stop sign, as opposed to a traffic light.

A protected left is one where there is a traffic light that gives you right of way to make the turn (green arrow).

Thanks. I was wondering if it is something like that. My English teacher would have said they aren't "protected" in any way from someone hitting them. She was picky about English terms. I guess it is something more like a right of way left turn. Ok, I am not good with terms either

 

[Silicon Desert]

The wife just said... "I'll bet you there will always be someone on the forum that when the clock ticks a couple minutes after midnight and they don't get a download, they will be bitching about it"

ADD: and I said I bet there will be dozens of people staying up to see if they do get it.

 

[JulienW]

Thanks. I was wondering if it is something like that. My English teacher would have said they aren't "protected" in any way from someone hitting them. She was picky about English terms. I guess it is something more like a right of way left turn. Ok, I am not good with terms either

Protected and Unprotected/Yield on Solid Green.

 

[JulienW]

The wife just said... "I'll bet you there will always be someone on the forum that when the clock ticks a couple minutes after midnight and they don't get a download, they will be bitching about it"

ADD: and I said I bet there will be dozens of people staying up to see if they do get it.

Just noticed this pic and it even uses the WORD protected.

 

[TulsaCoker]

Yes they have gotten away from signage that says protected due to liability. D
the sign above is definitely an old sign

 

[Silicon Desert]

Just noticed this pic and it even uses the WORD protected.

View attachment 842801

Great. Thanks, Yet, this reminds me of 15 years ago when the wife and I were driving through Oakland CA. We had the light, but a car dealer ran the red light and hit the driver door where the wife was driving. She wasn't "protected". I guess that is what the English teacher means by they should have a better term.

Sorry to digress from Elon's infinite programming versions

 

[ChaoticNeutral]

Is there any reason to believe that 10.69 will address:
• FSD insisting that the windshield is dirty and forcing an automatic cleaning after every car wash
• FSD stopping 10 feet from crosswalks at red lights when there's a pedestrian crossing
• FSD unnecessarily signaling at turns that do not require a signal (such as bends with black&yellow arrow signs, 180º corners going up hills, or streets that turn into another street organically)
• FSD turning into bus/light rail only lanes
• Adding left turns on red turning from one-way to one-way and from two-way onto a one-way

 

[Silicon Desert]

Well, its possible that someone could be coming at 100+ mph! That could be a bad result, regardless of who's at the wheel.

Hey stop talking about my wife

 

[thewishmaster]

Is there any reason to believe that 10.69 will address:
• FSD insisting that the windshield is dirty and forcing an automatic cleaning after every car wash
• FSD stopping 10 feet from crosswalks at red lights when there's a pedestrian crossing
• FSD unnecessarily signaling at turns that do not require a signal (such as bends with black&yellow arrow signs, 180º corners going up hills, or streets that turn into another street organically)
• FSD turning into bus/light rail only lanes
• Adding left turns on red turning from one-way to one-way and from two-way onto a one-way

Fwiw I’ve seen Waymo do the same for point 2 as recently as a few months ago. Though I do think they do a better job of creeping up to the stop line after stopping as pedestrians are crossing while the beta will wait until the crosswalk is clear.

But in general: no, that one ULT in Florida was never victim to these behaviors so therefore this release is probably not going to address them

 

[jabloomf1230]

Look in any traffic engineering design manual. They all use the term "protected". Here the first one that I found with Google:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/traffic-engineering/tdm-2018/TDOT%2520Traffic%2520Design%2520Manual_Complete%2520Manual_Aug2018.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjR9bW9-tP5AhX0GFkFHV2YCAQ4ChAWegQIIBAB&usg=AOvVaw1u8IGn7c6sPyPmqsnTcQZC

 

[Acisplat]

The wife just said... "I'll bet you there will always be someone on the forum that when the clock ticks a couple minutes after midnight and they don't get a download, they will be bitching about it"

ADD: and I said I bet there will be dozens of people staying up to see if they do get it.

I'll be that someone

 

[EVNow]

Anyway my point, if it was not clear, was that the speed limit doesn’t really matter much, anyway. If the speed limit is 25mph, you definitely want to be able to detect someone coming at 70mph and clear the intersection prior to their arrival. This sort of situation is quite common and disaster is usually averted. (Some would argue that this is one of the primary advantages of autonomous vehicles in fact - they are always vigilant and watching for such events.)

Speed absolutely matters.

Chances of 70 mph cross traffic on 25 mph road is extremely uncommon.

We need to start thinking disengement rates, accident rates and statistics and not absolutes.

 

[EVNow]

My English teacher would have said they aren't "protected" in any way from someone hitting them. She was picky about English terms. I guess it is something more like a right of way left turn. Ok, I am not good with terms either

I wish they taught some linguistics to English teachers - esp. how languages change over time, how new terms are formed, how meaning changes over time. Far too many of them are too stuck up and don’t understand languages at all.

 

[Mark II]

Anything else expected in the major code change 10.69 update besides ~100% handling of Chuck's ULT?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Speed absolutely matters.

Agreed!

Chances of 70 mph cross traffic on 25 mph road is extremely uncommon.


We need to start thinking disengement rates, accident rates and statistics and not absolutes.

I'd say the chance of someone exceeding the limit by 2-3x on a low-speed road is higher than the same on a high-speed road. Also think about an entrance to a rural town where the limit reduces from 65/70mph to 25mph. I bet it's not that uncommon for people to substantially exceed the limit, even accidentally (there's often a lot of enforcement to counter this!).

But anyway, similarly, what are you going to do when you have to do a grade-level crossing of a road with a 55-65mph limit or more mentioned by @Supcom ? These are very common on not-very-rural highways, etc., even around Seattle.

I'm just not sure why you seem so interested in limiting the capabilities and safety of FSD. It seems like at a minimum FSD should start with a level of basic sensing capability that matches that of a human, and Tesla should not push something out that gives people a false sense of capability (an illusion because speeds are low), which does not translate to higher speeds (where consequences are typically much higher).

I definitely want the vehicle to be able to reliably & safely cross a road with 70mph traffic in less than 5-6 seconds. If it can't do that I'm not sure what we're doing here.

 

[momo3605]

Anything else expected in the major code change 10.69 update besides ~100% handling of Chuck's ULT?

There’s a lot of stuff in the 10.13 release notes from a month ago. It was delayed because Chuck’s ULT wasn’t perfected yet. I suspect the release notes will be more or less the same with 10.69 just improving upon the ULT performance

 

[jabloomf1230]

There’s a lot of stuff in the 10.13 release notes from a month ago. It was delayed because Chuck’s ULT wasn’t perfected yet. I suspect the release notes will be more or less the same with 10.69 just improving upon the ULT performance

Isn't 10.69 based on 2022.20.x whereas 10.13 is 2022.16.x?

 

[Tronguy]

Anything else expected in the major code change 10.69 update besides ~100% handling of Chuck's ULT?

And you just know that some blame influencer on YouTube will get a copy, zip around like mad, cut out the parts where the errors are, and say, "Isn't it wonderul?"

Followed by a dozen posts somewhere where people pick apart the influencers weirdo gambits and comment on them. Whee.