FSD Beta 10.69

[Mardak]

NoAP does a lousy job with traffic merging from an on-ramp into its lane… What it DOES do is wait until the last minute and then slam on the brakes

Some people aren't familiar with this NoA yielding behavior and call it phantom braking not realizing Autopilot is being more courteous for merging vehicles than necessary. FSD Beta 10.69.25.1 does seem to highlight multiple potential merging vehicles in blue indicating it's more actively tracking and planning for their behaviors in this Dirty Tesla video from today that includes merging at a large single-point urban interchange where oncoming traffic yields to this left turn before the merged onramp merges to the highway:

This could be one of the more noticeable improvements with FSD Beta 11's single stack handling highways instead of NoA's simpler heuristics of detecting a vehicle in a mapped merging lane.

 

[Mardak]

Software page was stuck on "checking for update" when I manually checked

After it restarts - check the Software page

My kid and I got it by going to the Software screen and the check made it start downloading

I did end up checking on the software version in the car and doing a reboot to see if I could help it along. None of the things I did result in an immediate effect.

Thanks. It seems like people generally have been able to "force" the car to realize 2022.44.30.5 / FSD Beta 10.69.25.1 is available for existing FSD Beta vehicles although maybe there's still a 24-hour back-off before it actually checks again in the last example. To be clear, this is different from another software rollout mode where Tesla can proactively push to vehicles that an update is available, and there's another level up where Tesla can push an update over LTE.

I believe our experience with 2022.44.25.5 / FSD Beta 10.69.25, we were pushed the update notification even within the 24-hour manual check. Whereas with 10.69.25.1, we manually checked and it started downloading after over a minute of "checking."

 

[Mardak]

My car is still on 2022.44.25.5. Doing a quick check on Teslascope, it looks like updates from that version to 22.44.30.5 are ongoing, at a relaxed pace

Just making sure, you went to your vehicle and checked the Software settings screen and the last checked time was recent / within the last 24 hours? This relaxed pace also shows up in TeslaFi stats too where the pending number for 2022.44.30.5 has been slowly dropping from around 400+ on January 1st to currently around 200, but since the 1st, there's been nearly 1400 updates to this version. I believe this reflects people manually checking for updates and installing it whereas the "pending" count is mostly vehicles that were pushed the update notification (and a smaller portion for people who manually checked and found the update but didn't complete installation yet).

 

[nvx1977]

Thanks. It seems like people generally have been able to "force" the car to realize 2022.44.30.5 / FSD Beta 10.69.25.1 is available for existing FSD Beta vehicles although maybe there's still a 24-hour back-off before it actually checks again in the last example. To be clear, this is different from another software rollout mode where Tesla can proactively push to vehicles that an update is available, and there's another level up where Tesla can push an update over LTE.

I believe our experience with 2022.44.25.5 / FSD Beta 10.69.25, we were pushed the update notification even within the 24-hour manual check. Whereas with 10.69.25.1, we manually checked and it started downloading after over a minute of "checking."

It does seem like Tesla is not pushing the firmware to all, but all can get it with a manual pull.

How sure is the TMC community that there's a 1-check limit per 24 hours? I thought I saw someone post evidence to the contrary.

Also, this isn't the first time I've had to manually check for updates for an FSDb release. I think I had this issue with 10.69.3 or something around there. Either Tesla is intentionally doing this push vs pull game, or some of their pushes are not reaching the cars, and we have to pull to work around the issue.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

If I had 3 interventions per mile I'd think the same but I don't. My guess is you intervene far more than most drivers in the same situation. Just a guess though

I actually got a video of this so hopefully will make it clear.

These aren’t crazy interventions or anything.

It seems perfectly reasonable to have the car not use the brakes when stopping, and to keep up with traffic (this is where the interventions really add up). Should be so easy too.

On this drive I even gave it latitude to do a couple dumb things so the number could have been higher.

 

[MindBlend]

That’s the right strategy and mindset for sure, but unfortunately there is just too much intervention required at the moment to make it worth using (3 interventions per mile in a simple suburban type drive with excellent markings and simple traffic lights, with light traffic).

But when they sort out the major persistent problems with brake use and lack of acceleration and lack of smoothness, this will be the right idea.

The lane changes which are unnecessary are annoying, and biasing it towards not making them or just having the driver request most of them would be great. Maybe something to look forward to where you can just do it yourself most of the time, having it only initiate for actual turns (and missing the turn if the driver has not positioned the car in the correct approach lane to allow a simple turn lane entry - basically identical to NOA behavior - that would be awesome since then the driver would be basically in complete control of all the important decisions).

2023 hopefully will be the year of good Tesla decisions where they start giving customers what they want. That is the really great thing about competition - will make everything so much better and Tesla has an advantage in their culture and approach - as long as they are forced to make changes.

I switched mine to confirm lane change a long time ago. It doesn't start signaling until you have confirmed. Its basically the same as AP, except it will take onramps/offramps for you and suggest lane changes (which you can ignore)

 

[nvx1977]

It seems perfectly reasonable to have the car not use the brakes when stopping, and to keep up with traffic (this is where the interventions really add up). Should be so easy too.

I can't say I've ever intervened because the car used some friction brakes instead of staying in regen zone (though of course it annoys me that it doesn't try to do that).

I do intervene with pedal or set speed when car is not keeping up with traffic. However, I don't have high hopes that this issue will ever get better. Seems like AVs are held to a different standard when it comes to following speed limits compared to human driving. Just like that california stop issue. If you live in an area where driving slower/gentler than average annoys a lot of people, FSD is always going to be annoying to use and will require intervention.

I would be surprised by Dirty Tesla's ability to drive in Ann Arbor only going speed limit, but I learned to drive in the suburbs of Atlanta, where fellow drivers were equally tolerant of slowness. Here in New England, my FSDb speed offset is +5mph and I frequently am raising it 5mph more to not get honked at or passed.

 

[nvx1977]

I switched mine to confirm lane change a long time ago. It doesn't start signaling until you have confirmed. Its basically the same as AP, except it will take onramps/offramps for you and suggest lane changes (which you can ignore)

same. I frequently cancel its suggestions. annoying part is when it insists it wants to change lanes when that's absolutely the wrong move for traffic in that section. there's definitely a skill to avoiding rush hour traffic with strategic lane choices at certain segments of the highway. Car is completely oblivious to this.

 

[Supcom]

I agree 100% with your assessment. I'd add one more gripe to your list though - NoAP does a lousy job with traffic merging from an on-ramp into its lane. It never speeds up to accommodate this traffic, nor does it temporarily change lanes to make room. What it DOES do is wait until the last minute and then slam on the brakes. Drives me nuts. I intervene/disengage pretty much every time.

The five second delay to change lanes makes the idea of moving left for merging traffic difficult to implement. Hopefully, V11 will do away with this 'feature'.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I switched mine to confirm lane change a long time ago.

Yes, I have had it set that way since the second NOA drive. Hopefully we get the same with FSD. Would be easy to implement and eliminate most of the lane selection problems. The only problem with the NOA setting is it will inappropriately slow down if you are intentionally missing the navigation exit (by not entering the lane adjacent to the exit ramp or exit fork lane) and forget to reset the nav. They need to get rid of that behavior - for NOA and any potential FSD setting.

I can't say I've ever intervened because the car used some friction brakes instead of staying in regen zone (though of course it annoys me that it doesn't try to do that).

The thing is as soon as it happens, I can just disengage and coast smoothly to a stop, rather than enduring FSD jerking the regen and brakes around. So it is more pleasant. Sometimes I disengage proactively, sometimes I wait and see if it can do it (which it occasionally does for some reason!). Braking occurs so early usually that the disengagement and coast usually works fine. Plenty of time and space to just gently do a full regen silky smooth Tesla stop with no pedal input at all. It remains unable to do this itself for some reason. It just has to dead reckon it and let go of accelerator and brake.

I do intervene with pedal or set speed when car is not keeping up with traffic.

I’m talking about from a stop. It just doesn’t get up to the speed limit or keep up with traffic, or get in “pole position” when appropriate (when first in line at a light). So I have to override frequently. The jackrabbit starts people talk about are a mystery to me.

 

[Mcfly777]

I just did a 2 button reset and got my update. Strange.

 

[aronth5]

I switched mine to confirm lane change a long time ago. It doesn't start signaling until you have confirmed. Its basically the same as AP, except it will take onramps/offramps for you and suggest lane changes (which you can ignore)

I tried this too but it caused some other problems so I put it back. (I don't recall the specifics now though) Maybe it's better now and I should try the setting again.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The five second delay to change lanes makes the idea of moving left for merging traffic difficult to implement

Not sure what you are referring to. With NOA requested lane changes occur basically immediately assuming there are no cars around in the target lane.

Seems to be the same for FSD.

 

[Supcom]

Not sure what you are referring to. With NOA requested lane changes occur basically immediately assuming there are no cars around in the target lane.

Seems to be the same for FSD.

I'm referring to NOA automatic lane changes. In my car, when NOA intends to change lanes, it turns on the turn signal, then waits five seconds before actually moving to the intended lane (assuming the lane is clear). So, if NOA is in the right lane coming upon an entrance ramp with another car intending to merge onto the highway, in order for the car to automatically move left to make room, the car must sense the need for the lane change more than five seconds before it is going to reach the merging car so that it can start the lane change process in time.

If you use lane change confirmation or initiate the lane change using the left stalk, the car will begin moving into the intended lane sooner. My comment is directed toward the fully automatic feature that requires no driver intervention.

It is my hope that under V11 highway lane changes will behave like on city streets an lane changes will be made in a more timely manner.

 

[KArnold]

Driving sounds changed (in Drive and Reverse)

Care to expound? I've not noticed any different sounds.

 

[willow_hiller]

I'm referring to NOA automatic lane changes. In my car, when NOA intends to change lanes, it turns on the turn signal, then waits five seconds before actually moving to the intended lane (assuming the lane is clear).

It's actually waiting for solid torque on the steering wheel. If you keep constant pressure on the wheel, it will merge much faster.

 

[KArnold]

How does one do a software check? I don’t see a button anywhere. Mine just says it is up to date. Sorry to be naive; new owner.

From the car, go to SOFTWARE. If it says "up to date" you have as much as you can get currently. Note, you can only check this live every 24 hours - if you try sooner it will say "up to date as of mm/dd/yy hh:mm" where the date/time was the last time you checked < 24 hours.

Software releases go first to Tesla employees, then the YouTube influencers, then once ready for release to the remaining of the FSDb testers apparently in random order. The RATE of that deployment is often slow - over a period of weeks. So while others may have seen the latest release two/three weeks ago, many will not have received it yet. Details from TeslaFi can be seen --> TeslaFi.com Firmware Tracker

Beyond the above, almost all of the software releases that I've seen happen whenever your random number comes up. In this particular release, just checking the software tab *might* wake it up and get it sooner - that happened to me and to others on this release. Just be sure it's been more than 24 hours since you last checked and go to the SOFTWARE screen on your car.

I've also had 2 releases that appeared immediately after doing a 2-finger reboot. Perhaps coincidence but others have seen that as well.

But I've had DOZENS who did not respond to the SOFTWARE tab or a reboot - it just happens when it happens. That still seems to be the rule with an apparent couple of outliers. For me that's typically 2 or 3 weeks after it starts GA distribution anyway.

Personally, I would not be in a huge hurry to get the latest/greatest software. As we see release after release, it most often introduces new bugs. I prefer to wait at least a couple of weeks after the influencers and others have it just to avoid any surprises. Particularly in this release where the improvements are not readily apparent while the bugs are.

 

[scottf200]

It's actually waiting for solid torque on the steering wheel. If you keep constant pressure on the wheel, it will merge much faster.

I 100% see this on many occasion but always (AFAIK) on non-highway driving. I also see the flashing white bar notification on the top of my IC.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

My comment is directed toward the fully automatic feature that requires no driver intervention.

Ah ok, I know nothing about that operating mode. It seemed very bad last I tried three years ago; seemed set up for a lot of driver intervention. And given how often it prompts me to lane change, it does not appear likely to have changed much.

 

[bhakan]

I think it's the mindset - I treat it as an L2 system - a driver assist. I frequently, while on Advanced Driver Assist, force lane changes well before the system would initiate it, just because I know what's coming up. The system is assisting me, but I'm in control. It helps reduce frustration with the system. If you think of it as an L3+ system, then I could see it being more frustrating.

That's what I do as I know my lane closures well ahead, the traffic pattern and at least some of the drivers' mindset it's easier to assist my drive and supervise the system the other times.