At the intersection I tested, I was the only car on my street and the car coming from the left was the only car visible on its street. Beta just sat there. And, as it goes, before that one car in its far left lane got to the intersection, more cars appeared on the left. So beta just sat. 10.69.1.1 did the same thing. If the road had two lanes coming from the left, I would understand waiting until both lanes have good clearance, but, the leftmost lane of three lanes is of little risk when my car is going to turn into the rightmost lane.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
FSD Beta 10.69
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I don't see Tesla ever giving FSD the peppiness of a typical driver, so you will probably want to get used to it. It's a driver assist, so requiring input isn't a big deal. Of course I hope I'm wrong. It's just being super super cautious (to a fault). I definitely would love to see assertiveness dialed way way up, and just let me deal with the consequences, but I can see why they don't do that. It does seem like there are many places they could improve with no impact on safety, but that's easy to say without an understanding of the tradeoffs.
For turning traffic it really needs to detect turn signals and just change lanes right away like any normal driver. A bit of a decision tree there of course - it's not always necessary if there is sufficient space and the turn is taken fast enough. But I'd prefer to see a safe lane change instead of a slowdown in many cases.
I was JUST having a conversation with someone about this topic over the weekend. Not specific to FSD, but generally speaking? Reality is, human beings dont really drive "by the book". (Especially if you have ever driven in say, downtown manhattan during rush hour). And autonomous driving vehicles absolutely are/will be programmed to drive by the law/rules/the book.
So there is that...
If your map data is bad. This update still sucks. In Wilmington NC it still gets in right turn only lanes all the time when the actual right turn it needs to take is not for over a mile.
Does anyone know how to fix map data or where Tesla gets it from (open street map, tomtom, google etc)
I was so hopeful 69.2 would fix this kind of crap. Oh well. Does drive a little smoother when stuff is mapped right.
Does anyone know how to fix map data or where Tesla gets it from (open street map, tomtom, google etc)
I was so hopeful 69.2 would fix this kind of crap. Oh well. Does drive a little smoother when stuff is mapped right.
I generally have no issue with beta's acceleration. But, it should not do things like slow or stop because another car is approaching on a street wide enough for both cars. Yes, when this occurs, pressing the accelerator mitigates the issue, usually without a disengagement. But it's not a solution to preemptively use the accelerator. When I am testing the system, I want to see where it fails, not cover up the failure.
Beta needs to be able to read the posted lane use signs as a human does.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Why? It just seems to be frustrating to you. There's no downside to avoiding unnecessary slowdowns, and plenty of upside (reduction of collision risk, reduction in trip time, smoother ride, better efficiency). No information is typically lost because honestly it's pretty difficult to be skilled enough with the accelerator to avoid ANY undesired behavior. Certainly there's no information lost for Tesla. And you can hit report (FWIW) even if there wasn't a slowdown, if you think it would have, or any aspect of the behavior was unnatural. It doesn't have to be awful.
I wasn't referring to this issue by the way. This seems like an issue. It wasn't clear to me that accelerator would handle that (I would think it would result in beeping). I haven't been on unmarked streets narrow enough to see this; residential streets here are nearly wide enough for 6 lanes in England and Europe.
Not 100% the same since it is only one lane turning left but:
Situation is trying to go straight to the south across the main east/west boulevard. Starting w/ 10.12.2 and before the most recent map update she would turn from the #1 lane into the #2 lane (green line) on the N/S street. Prior it would turn from the #1 into the #1 (blue) and then try and make a last second change to go straight, which was almost never possible since based on traffic density at this turn.
Certainly has gotten better at predicting [anticipating?] since October.
Yep. Either that or just have map data that is right.
FSD will never work without a better navigation system.
Apple Maps tells you exactly what lane to be in at all times when navigating. I don’t know why this is so hard. Seems much more simple than solving something crazy like chuck’s turn.
I think you are misinterpreting my reports. I am not frustrated with beta. I report what it does, or doesn't do.
Driving with the accelerator pressed provides input to the system that may affect the driving decisions. I want to see the system attempt to do the whole driving task, not just steer the car.
Perhaps you are more concerned about getting someplace on a tight schedule and are less tolerant of beta issues. I usually have no such constraint.
Map data can NEVER be 100% right. You gather the data one day and the next the DOT changes the signs or line assignments. You can't rely on map data for the entire US or for sure not the entire world. Map data is only accurate when used in geo fenced small areas that can be constantly monitored for changes.
This is why they incorporate vision as well. However, we humans remember past drives of the same path and don’t make the same mistake picking a route twice. Currently, because of bad map data, FSD makes the same mistakes over and over again. They at least have to try and make the map data a little better. You can’t just use the excuse “map data will never be 100% correct.” We make lane changes as humans before we ever see the arrows that show it’s a turning lane because we have map data ingrained in our brains.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Fair enough, I think I did read too much into the original post.
I just don't mind driving the car and when I no longer have to provide input, I know it is good - I guess that's the way I look at it. And I know how much accelerator input I can give, to avoid problems with steering (can't do too much).
Still, I certainly don't see the advantage when entering a roundabout and it starts to slow when it should not at all, to waiting to see how slowly it goes. You already know it is wrong. There should be no slowing (except as appropriate for road curvature) when entering a roundabout when there is no traffic.
Well, maybe you don't repeat the same mistake, but I am sometimes like a goldfish...
Which would be cool, I suppose - but I was on the ramp. Looking at the other cars. Worrying about the car doing something stupid. My eyes were out the window, no joke.
Perhaps when one is doing a fairly tight turn on a ramp and is following the cars in front of one, it notices that the eye direction isn't parallel to the long axis of the car?
Otherwise: False alarm. Sigh. Probably the steering wheel.
It must not be twitching the steering wheel enough for you. Personally I'd be afraid of it making some unexpected move that accelerator usage would make worse...
Another behavior that seems less than optimal is 4-way stop behavior when taking its turn. If there are cars crossing the path, it will wait until they clear the intersection completely before moving (fine I guess, though I'd start moving once the car has left my path). However, if a car from the right-hand side is making a left turn onto my road, so far 100% of the time 10.69.x has started moving while the turning car was entering the intersection
and I don't mean inching slowly to indicate intent - it gives a pretty strong push.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
As was also mentioned, this can happen when the system loses confidence as well. But it's not the steering wheel AFAIK.
I just posted a brief clip showing it can, but it's not a big deal; just have to be judicious. And that's with assertive application only. Remember, with the accelerator application, you will likely still be slowing the vehicle - you may just be slowing it less. The accelerator often functions as the brake in Teslas!
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
And it also shows the FRICTION braking that the car is doing (but only when using FSD - it doesn't show your brake use).Seen some improvements and some regression with this release but didn't see anyone mention my favorite new feature in this release:
Seem to me the REGEN bar is now a few pixels thicker!
Last edited:
danharr
Member
10.69.2
Good:
Definitely smoother following curves on residential marked 2 lane roads. And- YES! I'm getting less cavalier lane changes (I hope that lasts). Also it pulled around a stopped truck smoothly, getting back into my lane with a sharp smooth turn after passing the parked truck.
Bad:
It tried to pull into the oncoming traffic lane which was blocked by a school bus with its flashers on, letting kids out! It should've stayed in our lane and waited for the cars in front of me to move. And on our small unmarked street, it now just stops in the middle of the road when a car comes from the other direction. It doesn't pull to the right, so no one can move. It's like it thinks unmarked roads are one-way, and it's shocked when it sees an oncoming car.
I still get lots of unnecessary turn signals.
It picks the wrong lane at stoplights, wanting to get in the left turn lane to go straight, for example. To fix this, it's got to update the map, or read the signs designating lane assignments.
Good:
Definitely smoother following curves on residential marked 2 lane roads. And- YES! I'm getting less cavalier lane changes (I hope that lasts). Also it pulled around a stopped truck smoothly, getting back into my lane with a sharp smooth turn after passing the parked truck.
Bad:
It tried to pull into the oncoming traffic lane which was blocked by a school bus with its flashers on, letting kids out! It should've stayed in our lane and waited for the cars in front of me to move. And on our small unmarked street, it now just stops in the middle of the road when a car comes from the other direction. It doesn't pull to the right, so no one can move. It's like it thinks unmarked roads are one-way, and it's shocked when it sees an oncoming car.
I still get lots of unnecessary turn signals.
It picks the wrong lane at stoplights, wanting to get in the left turn lane to go straight, for example. To fix this, it's got to update the map, or read the signs designating lane assignments.
Similar threads
- Article
