FSD Beta 10.69

[CharleyBC]

I hear what you are saying as well but to me, it IS a safety concern, no different than the car traveling through a school zone or passing a school bus when lights are flashing, its about an "awareness" of observing signs and where its actually driving.......map data is important to this problem as well. I dont want to get into any arguments because all of us would like FSD to be better in lots of ways, this is just something that isnt going to get fixed with county regulators or posted speed limits given that FSD is reading speed limit signs in day to day usage.

We live on a street that typically has cars parked here and there on both sides. There simply isn't enough room for two-way traffic in between. People drive cautiously and when encountering an oncoming car, one or the other tucks into a gap and allows the other to pass. One could argue the city should reduce the 25 mph limit to, say, 15; or make it a one-way street; or permit parking on only one side. But they haven't and likely won't. So, yeah, it'd be good if FSD got a bit more human-like and could realize that there's insufficient room for two-way passage and slow accordingly, regardless of the official limit. It also has never been courteous enough to be the one to tuck into a gap to let the other car go; it just stops, seemingly uncertain.

 

[KArnold]

We live on a street that typically has cars parked here and there on both sides. There simply isn't enough room for two-way traffic in between. People drive cautiously and when encountering an oncoming car, one or the other tucks into a gap and allows the other to pass. One could argue the city should reduce the 25 mph limit to, say, 15; or make it a one-way street; or permit parking on only one side. But they haven't and likely won't. So, yeah, it'd be good if FSD got a bit more human-like and could realize that there's insufficient room for two-way passage and slow accordingly, regardless of the official limit. It also has never been courteous enough to be the one to tuck into a gap to let the other car go; it just stops, seemingly uncertain.

Interesting. In my experience, it actually makes a decent attempt when encountering such a situation. It usually is pretty conservative waiting for the other guy to pass first. I had assumed, perhaps wrongly, that all of FSDb was doing that. When approaching an area with both oncoming traffic/room for only 1 vehicle it seems to play nicely with other neighborhood traffic, slowing/stopping as needed.

I do manually roll the speed limit in the neighborhood from 30 to 20 just as that's the safe speed. But traffic negotiation seems to work decently.

 

[Tronguy]

Interesting. In my experience, it actually makes a decent attempt when encountering such a situation. It usually is pretty conservative waiting for the other guy to pass first. I had assumed, perhaps wrongly, that all of FSDb was doing that. When approaching an area with both oncoming traffic/room for only 1 vehicle it seems to play nicely with other neighborhood traffic, slowing/stopping as needed.

I do manually roll the speed limit in the neighborhood from 30 to 20 just as that's the safe speed. But traffic negotiation seems to work decently.

This comment is no biggie: But I've been on plenty of "two-way" streets around these parts that, with cars parked on both sides, there's really only room for one car down the middle.

FSD-b has been handling those just fine: When there's another car coming, it tries to "duck and cover" into an unused parking spot on the right side so the oncoming car can get in; if the other car does the duck-and-cover bit, then it plays nice and moves forward, cautiously, but not too slowly, until it gets past the opposed stopped car.

 

[EVNow]

We live on a street that typically has cars parked here and there on both sides. There simply isn't enough room for two-way traffic in between. People drive cautiously and when encountering an oncoming car, one or the other tucks into a gap and allows the other to pass. One could argue the city should reduce the 25 mph limit to, say, 15; or make it a one-way street; or permit parking on only one side. But they haven't and likely won't. So, yeah, it'd be good if FSD got a bit more human-like and could realize that there's insufficient room for two-way passage and slow accordingly, regardless of the official limit. It also has never been courteous enough to be the one to tuck into a gap to let the other car go; it just stops, seemingly uncertain.

I always reduce the speed to 20 mph on unmarked roads .... works fine in my neighborhood.

 

[JulienW]

I always reduce the speed to 20 mph on unmarked roads .... works fine in my neighborhood.

This is the potentially the BEST part of the recall (if we understand correctly). Hope to roll the speed down and have some regen to decelerate in a more reasonable distance.

 

[EVNow]

This is the potentially the BEST part of the recall (if we understand correctly). Hope to roll the speed down and have some regen to decelerate in a more reasonable distance.

Good thing is change from marked to unmarked roads is usually after a turn / intersection for which FSD anyway slows down. So, easy for me to reduce speed … without FSD taking forever to get to 20 mph.

 

[EVNow]

Investor day … they say 3.2 M miles per collision vs 0.5M for US average. In Q4 ER they said they have a total of 90 million miles driven on FSDB. So, about 30 collisions total ?

 

[CharleyBC]

This comment is no biggie: But I've been on plenty of "two-way" streets around these parts that, with cars parked on both sides, there's really only room for one car down the middle.

FSD-b has been handling those just fine: When there's another car coming, it tries to "duck and cover" into an unused parking spot on the right side so the oncoming car can get in; if the other car does the duck-and-cover bit, then it plays nice and moves forward, cautiously, but not too slowly, until it gets past the opposed stopped car.

It's good to hear the experiences of you and @KArnold. My experience has been it just stops, which then doesn't leave room for the other car to get past. So of course, I take over, and scoot to the side, unless the other car has already done so, in which case I go by and smile sheepishly.

 

[kabin]

Ashok stumbled a bit with his presentation and was a bit difficult to understand on top of that. I tried slowing it down with audio to text translation but nothing could break the hash code. Some of it looked like the same slides from before but still interesting. Surprised he started and ended with the delusional unlocking your unused FSD vehicle for other uses blah-blah-blah.

It would be interesting to know how they come up with an FSD/human 3.2M to 0.5M accident ratio. Those #'s are similar to the AP #'s thrown around so it sounds fishy aside from being human hands-on and requires a ridiculous # of interventions and disengagements.

 

[flutas]

Investor day … they say 3.2 M miles per collision vs 0.5M for US average. In Q4 ER they said they have a total of 90 million miles driven on FSDB. So, about 30 collisions total ?

Probably about right I'd bet.

If I understand the recall notice we have a confirmed 18 at least?

As of February 14, 2023, Tesla has identified 18 warranty claims, received between May 8, 2019, and September 12, 2022, that may be related to the conditions described above. Tesla is not aware of any injuries or deaths that may be related to such conditions.

 

[xG35]

Ashok stumbled a bit with his presentation and was a bit difficult to understand on top of that. I tried slowing it down with audio to text translation but nothing could break the hash code. Some of it looked like the same slides from before but still interesting. Surprised he started and ended with the delusional unlocking your unused FSD vehicle for other uses blah-blah-blah.

It would be interesting to know how they come up with an FSD/human 3.2M to 0.5M accident ratio. Those #'s are similar to the AP #'s thrown around so it sounds fishy aside from being human hands-on and requires a ridiculous # of interventions and disengagements.

Pretty sure my fsd tried to crash twice this evening if it wasn’t for my intervention.

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

Investor day … they say 3.2 M miles per collision vs 0.5M for US average. In Q4 ER they said they have a total of 90 million miles driven on FSDB. So, about 30 collisions total ?

I agree can we hear some details on these crashes?

Was FSD at fault in any of these crashes?

 

[kabin]

Pretty sure my fsd tried to crash twice this evening if it wasn’t for my intervention.

For fun last night I did a late drive on FSDb as there was little to no traffic and had the same result. There isn't anything safe about it in current form. It's a marginal driver at best and in no way comparable to an average human driver it interacts with. Its ok for cruise control with lane keeping but not so interacting with vehicles, traffic controls, turns, starting, stopping. At one point we were at a stop light and with the green it launched as if it was going straight ahead up to the posted street speed but then realized it needed to turn left and applied heavy brake.

FSDb works great if there's no traffic and no decisions to be made otherwise it's Mr Toad's wild ride.

 

[xG35]

For fun last night I did a late drive on FSDb as there was little to no traffic and had the same result. There isn't anything safe about it in current form. It's a marginal driver at best and in no way comparable to an average human driver it interacts with. Its ok for cruise control with lane keeping but not so interacting with vehicles, traffic controls, turns, starting, stopping. At one point we were at a stop light and with the green it launched as if it was going straight ahead up to the posted street speed but then realized it needed to turn left and applied heavy brake.

FSDb works great if there's no traffic and no decisions to be made otherwise it's Mr Toad's wild ride.

I agree, the crash ratio is misleading; because I avoided the crash. But primarily, they shouldn’t had been there the first place.

Have I seen it response well to dangerous encounter? Yes but not at the ratio they are putting out.

Also, I am pretty sure they are changing the configuration behind the scene without updates. It can do route perfectly one day and next day is a complete wtf. Even with no traffic.

 

[powertoold]

Where are these videos of 25.2 trying to crash?

 

[kabin]

Where are these videos of 25.2 trying to crash?

How about the videos from the 30 that reportedly crashed?

 

[powertoold]

How about the videos from the 30 that reportedly crashed?

I don't know what you're trying to say.

I'm saying, can we see some YouTube videos of 25.2 trying to crash? So we can assess what's going on?

I use 25.2 all the time, and I wouldn't say it's trying to crash at any time. Maybe I'm better at using it. Maybe it's not snowing where I drive.

 

[EVNow]

I agree can we hear some details on these crashes?

Was FSD at fault in any of these crashes?

All we have is this report ...

Tesla ADAS Incident Reports

I'm starting this thread to analyze incident reports that Tesla files with NHTSA regarding crashes involving cars that might be related to FSD or AP or NOA. Note that Tesla has to report any incidence where the crash happens even if AP/FSD/NOA was engaged within 30 seconds prior to the crash...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[sleepydoc]

Well, I got another unprovoked strike tonight - driving home using FSD the entire way. About 2 blocks from home (after 25 min or so) I noticed the screen had started to glow blue and as I started to torque the wheel it started beeping with the red wheel of death. I had beed staring straight ahead the entire time. No warning, no other beeps, nothing, just an unprovoked strike.

 

[kriskros91]

Well, I got another unprovoked strike tonight - driving home using FSD the entire way. About 2 blocks from home (after 25 min or so) I noticed the screen had started to glow blue and as I started to torque the wheel it started beeping with the red wheel of death. I had beed staring straight ahead the entire time. No warning, no other beeps, nothing, just an unprovoked strike.

As bad as it is now with this system if I ever encounter a nag for "pay attention to the road" I just disengage right away, drive for a few seconds, and then re-engage. I don't let the system give me a strike - deserved or undeserved. Getting cumulative strikes leading to striking out completely may nerf the system for months on end, given the current pace of updates.