FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[boonedocks]

what does this have to do with the topic of the thread "FSD Beta V11.x"? It's not appropriate. find another forum if you want to entertain conversations like this,.

Mmmm Nothing at all. Troll is what it is…



@mgs333

 

[Ravioli]

Hello everyone! I've been following this list for some time now, enjoying the discussions and comparing to my own experiences. We've had FSD on our model Y from September last year. I've been trying to use it as much as possible, pushing it whenever it feels safe, and at the same time disengaging to report wild behaviors. I would say I try to drive with FSD enabled 90% of the time, but I mostly drive in the suburbs (limited freeway and almost no big city driving).

Few weeks ago, we went on a road trip from Seattle all the way to LA and San Diego. The car was originally on 11.3.3, updated to 11.3.6 during the trip. I've not had a chance to test the new stack before the trip so was getting used to it on the go. Driving with high speeds, occasionally in a dense traffic, on roads I'm not familiar with was definitely an experience. I had to go through a learning curve, but after several hours of driving I've started to feel more comfortable with the car and was able to predict its strengths and weaknesses.

I love the new way of offsetting inside the lane when passing trucks or other objects close to the road. It also feels like the car is overall smoother taking the curves, even if the road surface is angled. Lane changing execution at higher speeds (60 - 85mph) is similar or smoother than what I can do myself. The lane changing decisions are a hit or miss, sometimes executed very well (car moves to the left lane to pass and comes back to the right lane whenever someone behind is approaching with higher speed) and sometimes disappointingly bad (car puts itself in a situation when there is little time left to change lanes to follow the navigation or avoid an obvious obstacle).

What I don't like that much is the speed control. The car has a different braking curve then what I'm expecting, it is consistently braking a second or so too late and much stronger then what I would have preferred. Although I couldn't adjust this, over time, I've learned to let the car do its thing. It always managed to stop in a controlled way, and never needed an intervention, so it for sure is capable of doing so. It is possible that it is just a personal preference of mine and maybe some driving conditions demand that kind of behavior but it feels like it can be improved. Stop and go traffic is also jerky sometimes and requires gentle press on the accelerator.

After hundreds of miles on highway, I've got so used to it I kept using FSD in most of the city driving. Surprisingly I felt more comfortable and safer with FSD enabled then not. I found that when driving relying on navigation in a city I'm not familiar with I had more time to check the directions and figure out where the next turn was and what lane should I be in. Despite having both hands on the wheel all the time, I felt like I also had more time to assess the situation around me, and make sure the car is not doing anything unsafe when planning and executing lane change or a turn. There were of course situations when I had to take over. The car made weird navigation mistakes - navigation was clearly pointing to the right, car was on the correct lane to enter a ramp, but instead of doing so, decided to go straight and take the opposite ramp. Some of maneuvers were also either indecisive or overly jerky, what caused frustration and significantly reduced our comfort.

Overall, after driving 3.5k of miles in a week, I must say I really believe FSD made that trip more pleasant and less tiring than using regular autopilot or driving with no assist at all. I felt far less tired, smiled each time car did something great, and had more time to admire the surroundings and enjoy the trip. I look forward to do more testing and hope that our collective efforts will help Tesla complete FSD, which is the most exciting software I've used in the last decade.

 

[aronth5]

I found that when driving relying on navigation in a city I'm not familiar with I had more time to check the directions and figure out where the next turn was and what lane should I be in. Despite having both hands on the wheel all the time, I felt like I also had more time to assess the situation around me, and make sure the car is not doing anything unsafe when planning and executing lane change or a turn.

I've had the same experience driving in unfamiliar areas, especially at night.

 

[D Good]

Got my first ever strike today. Have had FSD since the “original” 10.2 so it’s disappointing. User error. Screen was acting weird so I did a scroll wheel reset. Of course, that means the whole screen goes black and you can’t see the “Apply force to steering wheel” warnings. Screen comes back on and the car starts beeping red hands of death etc. Interesting experience. I wonder if they should make it to where autopilot disengages if the screen is off. Of course this would cause issues on its own.

 

[Ramphex]

I've had the same experience driving in unfamiliar areas, especially at night.

I drove at night once too

 

[Twiglett]

Been doing the previously regular commute and 11.3.6 has been much better than I was expecting. Especially nice is the reduced need to tweak the wheel, when things are calm I think I crack and tweak the wheel before the car tells me to
Only thing that bugs me is in-lane weaving it does on highway curves, especially when passing trucks. If I'm in the center lane with a truck in the right lane it really crowds the folks in the left lane.
If the traffic is busy and we are taking the curve slowly if keeps centering and moving to the lane edge then back again. Taking the same curve at highway speed has no issues though.
Funniest is passing between two trucks, its all over the lane then

 

[EVNow]

After hundreds of miles on highway, I've got so used to it I kept using FSD in most of the city driving. Surprisingly I felt more comfortable and safer with FSD enabled then not.

Exactly how I feel. I still disengage when the conditions are too chaotic - parking lots, construction zones ... but otherwise, its a lot more relaxing than driving without it.

 

[powertoold]

Exactly how I feel. I still disengage when the conditions are too chaotic - parking lots, construction zones ... but otherwise, its a lot more relaxing than driving without it.

After a while, I feel a little odd driving manually, paying attention to lights / stops and figuring my way around lol

It'll be interesting to see the non-fsd accident stats after fsdb is driving 99% of the time in the future. Tesla's advantage is that active safety will become better as fsd improves. I don't think Waymo or Cruise has improved active safety in manual mode (yet).

 

[Ramphex]

I like Elon’s way. He puts out junk and waits to see if people can adapt to using it. Once they do, he calls it success. If they don’t, he puts out another junk revision. Guy is genius.

 

[jebinc]

No need for Koolaid - I go with my own experience. Obviously I don't post videos so I post others that show similar experience.

 

[kabin]

Of course the acceleration profile is still rough. I noticed a course transition. There's an initial mild acceleration for two or three seconds and then an abrupt over acceleration until near the set speed. It has a simplistic hard coded junky feel.

More sophistication is also needed for turns when roadway water collection dips are present. Turn velocity on smooth road won't necessarily feel comfortable when turning through dips. Here's a smoother example but rest assured there are far worse than this and FSD doesn't bat an eye when your world is rocked.

 

[jebinc]

I like Elon’s way. He puts out junk and waits to see if people can adapt to using it. Once they do, he calls it success. If they don’t, he puts out another junk revision. Guy is genius.

No, he’s known in some parts as, “The Great Charlatan”.

 

[Ramphex]

Of course the acceleration profile is still rough. I noticed a course transition. There's an initial mild acceleration for two or three seconds and then an abrupt over acceleration until near the set speed. It has a simplistic hard coded junky feel.

More sophistication is also needed for turns when roadway water collection dips are present. Turn velocity on smooth road won't necessarily feel comfortable when turning through dips. Here's a smoother example but rest assured there are far worse than this and FSD doesn't bat an eye when your world is rocked.

View attachment 934697

 

[EVNow]

I like Elon’s way. He puts out junk and waits to see if people can adapt to using it. Once they do, he calls it success. If they don’t, he puts out another junk revision. Guy is genius.

Long time back I used to feel you & @jebinc are just maligning FSD … now I just feel sorry for you two who are unable to get over the learning curve and enjoy FSDB

 

[Ramphex]

Long time back I used to feel you & @jebinc are just maligning FSD … now I just feel sorry for you two who are unable to get over the learning curve and enjoy FSDB

Flying a plane was a learning curve. Driving junk software is just a bad experience.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Last couple of days have yielded vulgar language in my disengagement reports. I had like two weeks of “near” perfect drives, this week really took a nose dive. Weird. Same spots I’ve no issues with in the past, total fail boats this week. I digress.

 

[jebinc]

Last couple of days have yielded vulgar language in my disengagement reports. I had like two weeks of “near” perfect drives, this week really took a nose dive. Weird. Same spots I’ve no issues with in the past, total fail boats this week. I digress.

*!#* FSD!

 

[sandman1330]

Yeeeeah..... One day after multiple, multiple disengagements, I actually responded with "Because FSD f***ing sucks." I was that frustrated.

Today I disengaged so many times it actually stopped even giving me the voice prompt... I wonder if I filled up the buffer so there's no more room for data.

I'm the first to admit I'm gunshy about disengagements, but I will absolutely not let it do things that inconvenience or confuse other drivers. Hesitate at a turn: disengage. Swerve in lane: Disengage. Janky deceleration coming to a stop sign: Disengage. I already draw the ire of local drivers just by virtue of driving a Tesla in oil country, I don't need to give them more reasons to road rage. When I first got FSD I let it do it's thing, and got flipped off, swerved at, and honked at so much I won't do it anymore.

If you think you just need to adapt to it, it's either working alot better for you than for many of us, or your have stockholm syndrome

 

[EVNow]

If you think you just need to adapt to it, it's either working alot better for you than for many of us, or your have stockholm syndrome

Or we have learnt to use it better.

 

[kabin]

Last couple of days have yielded vulgar language in my disengagement reports. I had like two weeks of “near” perfect drives, this week really took a nose dive. Weird. Same spots I’ve no issues with in the past, total fail boats this week. I digress.

I've been there with the colorful language. I bet it's more common than not.

Everything being equal one would expect a more deterministic result for static scenarios but that isn't the case. I've sat still with FSDb running and the displayed UI changes wildly, cars appear and disappear even when the scene doesn't change and of course the planned path whips around like a crazed slithering snake. Assuming the UI is a close approximation to the internal software workings, FSDb performance will be suboptimal.

Psychology plays a role too. There's likely an unconscious placebo effect with these new releases. Users have much invested and hear/read the release notes believing everything - so surely my car is demonstrating those spectacular new qualities.