FSD Beta v11.x

Knightshade · Jun 12, 2023

Ramphex said:
You don’t have to sign in to anything, you literally just click the link and watch the video. If you bothered to click on it, you would’ve known that, but instead you just defend the Junk without even bothering to attempt to watch the videos.

BTW I tried to watch the 3 videos.

Clicking the link did not play them.

It did have a button to download though so I tried that.

Vid 1- Car autoparks. Safely- albeit slowly.
Vid 2-Not a video. It downloads a JPG named "FullSizeRender.JPG" . No idea what it's supposed to be showing.
Vid 3-Same result- same name even.

Possibly YOU get different results from your links since you're logged in or something...Hopefully your FSD testing isn't this user-error prone

Ramphex said:
Human plus FSDj is safer than just human? Wowzers.

Indeed- I'm glad you moved on from your strawman argument of safer than a human by itself.

Ramphex said:
Two humans driving is also safer than one. Like two pilots flying instead of one.

You realize those things don't actually happen, right?

The pilot OR the co-pilot is flying the plane. Never BOTH.

A better analogy would be literal aircraft autopilot.... where ONE person is flying, but the automated systems are doing a lot of the drudge work and the human is supervising the system.

And, indeed, it's safer than just a human. Just as AP and FSDb both make driving safer than just a human.

Not even sure what you're arguing at this point once you were forced to abandon arguing a point nobody had actually made.

Ramphex said:
The Junk was supposed to take over the driving. Full Self Driving.

Nothing Tesla has ever released to a customer is supposed to do that. All releases are L2 ADAS- explicitly.

Further, since March 2019, they don't even promise a FUTURE product will.

Knightshade · Jun 12, 2023

willow_hiller said:
Regardless of the actual failure rate, the math is very different for Tesla because A will be much larger, unless they also geo-fence a L3 release. And Tesla seems opposed to geo-fencing as a matter of principle.

The L4 Tesla intended to release originally would also have to be geo-fenced, since autonomy is controlled on a state by state basis today. That's why Mercedes is having to go state by state in releasing it.

drtimhill · Jun 12, 2023

WilliamG said:
Yep. If you had a new driver sitting in your lap driving the car, - while you could take over at any time, you would be a safer driver, too, because you’d be hyper aware and ready to take over out of sheer fear. That’s FSDj for you. To reiterate an earlier point, Tesla makes it sound like FSDj makes the car safer. No. It makes the driver safer. Is that what we really wanted? I sure as heck didn’t buy FSDj so that I’d have to be even more on my toes/alert every single drive it is used.

Perhaps it's not what you want, but is that bad? Regardless of who or what is "safer", the CAR is safer. Seems to me a good thing overall.

And, in effect, ALL the work Tesla are now doing is changing the ratio of how much work the driver does to how much work the car does. The early betas were pretty scary, but lately for average roads FSD is excellent. For me, at least, the result is that when the roads are boring, I can casually watch for stuff that might give the car a headache, and when the going gets messy (e.g. in a crowded city), I can increase my vigilance and/or take over.

Which is basically what every good driver should do anyway. Stay aware of the road conditions and adjust awareness accordingly. So, after all the bluster, FSD is doing exactly what we all wanted, moving a big chunk of the driving stress off the driver. Not sure how that is a bad thing?

aronth5 · Jun 12, 2023

Ramphex said:
@aronth5 posting the links again, so you could not watch them, and instead just blindly defend that FSD is pure excellence.

Thanks. They didn't run until I made a setting change on my PC. Besides that there wasn't anything worth looking at. 2 pictures and a parking lot. What was I supposed to see that I could comment on? Since I don't want "junk" downloaded on my PC I've removed all 3 files. By the way I don't believe the current hardware will support Robotaxi and I've posted many negative posts about FSD so please don't make assumptions that I think FSD is "pure excellence".

WilliamG · Jun 12, 2023

Ramphex said:
It is also debatable on whether it’s easier to just drive manually or supervise software that is supervising you, with a cabin camera, supervising it attempt to drive.

The answer to that question is pretty easy. When I’m driving there’s no concern at stop signs or red lights or narrower roads or when it’s raining or when it’s time to merge or change lane or parallel park or just accelerate gently in heavy traffic without excessive acceleration/braking.

Yeah. I’ll take driving over FSDj. There’s not a single thing it’s better at than a human except keeping in a lane on a highway over a long drive, which AP has done for years, and which isn’t even special in the automotive world today.

Actually, scrap that. FSD now will at times tend to take exits erroneously off highways if the car in front does it. So it can’t even maintain its lane anymore like it used to on AP.

WilliamG · Jun 12, 2023

drtimhill said:
Perhaps it's not what you want, but is that bad? Regardless of who or what is "safer", the CAR is safer. Seems to me a good thing overall.

And, in effect, ALL the work Tesla are now doing is changing the ratio of how much work the driver does to how much work the car does. The early betas were pretty scary, but lately for average roads FSD is excellent. For me, at least, the result is that when the roads are boring, I can casually watch for stuff that might give the car a headache, and when the going gets messy (e.g. in a crowded city), I can increase my vigilance and/or take over.

Which is basically what every good driver should do anyway. Stay aware of the road conditions and adjust awareness accordingly. So, after all the bluster, FSD is doing exactly what we all wanted, moving a big chunk of the driving stress off the driver. Not sure how that is a bad thing?

Except for many of us it doesn’t move the stress off the driver. It increases the stress. As I’ve stated many times, I’m more than happy to FSDj this car around with a guest. If you’re in the Seattle area and have decent life insurance, stop on by!

Knightshade · Jun 12, 2023

Ramphex said:
Hey man, I didn’t design iCloud, if opening a video on there is outside of your scope of practice, you can file a complaint with Apple.

You have an awesome habit of blaming others when you make mistakes.

Might wanna see to that

I tried Chrome and Opera and Edge.

All 3 behaved the same way.

Ramphex said:
Also, go ahead and tell me more about how flying a plane works and what the captain and the first officer do

Apparently I needed to since you thought they both fly at the same time

Ramphex said:
I’m sure you can teach me a thing or two since you’re an experienced pilot.

First time I piloted a plane was 1987. How bout you?

Ramphex said:
I was never arguing that the junk is not “safer.”

Dis you?

Ramphex said:
I’m actually curious how much you guys suck at driving if you think FSD is safer than you

Ramphex said:
It just simply doesn’t do what it was advertised to do

It does literally everything it was advertised to do since ~March 2019.

drtimhill · Jun 12, 2023

Ramphex said:
It is also debatable on whether it’s easier to just drive manually or supervise software that is supervising you, with a cabin camera, supervising it attempt to drive.

Which is a personal judgement that each of us have to make. And at the end of the day, all the gnashing of teeth over FSD comes down to that choice. It should also be pointed out that as FSD improves the equation for that choice changes, which is what the beta is all about, basically.

(Of course exactly the same argument can be applied to TACC and even good old cruise control.)

Ramphex · Jun 12, 2023

Video Jun 11 2023, 14 40 17.mov

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Video Jun 11 2023, 15 08 33.mov

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Video Jun 11 2023, 15 12 07.mov

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Re-uploaded the videos to Dropbox since iCloud was too complex to navigate.

Ramphex · Jun 12, 2023

Knightshade said:
You have an awesome habit of blaming others when you make mistakes.

Might wanna see to that

I tried Chrome and Opera and Edge.

All 3 behaved the same way.

Apparently I needed to since you thought they both fly at the same time

First time I piloted a plane was 1987. How bout you?

Dis you?

It does literally everything it was advertised to do since ~March 2019.

View attachment 946198

Quote me where I said both pilots fly at the same time. Are you also going to get into the semantics of “flying” as physically handing the controls, as if there are no other responsibilities?

Knightshade · Jun 12, 2023

Ramphex said:
Video Jun 11 2023, 14 40 17.mov

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Video Jun 11 2023, 15 08 33.mov

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Video Jun 11 2023, 15 12 07.mov

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Re-uploaded the videos to Dropbox since iCloud was too complex to navigate.

Congrats, more than 1 of those worked!

Vid 1- Autopark safely autoparks.
Vids 2 and 3- FSD drives safely, though turns the signal on inappropriately a few times... but on single lane roads so not it would've been dangerous for someone trying to pass you or something.

WilliamG · Jun 12, 2023

Knightshade said:
You have an awesome habit of blaming others when you make mistakes.

Might wanna see to that

I tried Chrome and Opera and Edge.

All 3 behaved the same way.

Apparently I needed to since you thought they both fly at the same time

First time I piloted a plane was 1987. How bout you?

Dis you?

It does literally everything it was advertised to do since ~March 2019.

View attachment 946198

You keep posting this years old misleading page by today’s standards. It’s clearly telling the buyer that the currently-enabled features (AP/EAP etc) require driver supervision. This is irrelevant when all the parts we are discussing here are in relation to the “coming later this year” portion of that page, which is the FSD part, and which any reasonable person would take to understand was not part of those currently-enabled features.

Ramphex · Jun 12, 2023

drtimhill said:
And that's your problem, at the end of day. If you cant cope with the FSD beta then dont use it. Simple, really.

Considering that the final stable version is very unlikely to happen in our current cars lifetimes, in my opinion, the beta is THE only thing someone could use to recoup SOMETHING from their monetary investment into the Junk.

Knightshade · Jun 12, 2023

Ramphex said:
Quote me where I said both pilots fly at the same time

Ramphex said:
Two humans driving is also safer than one. Like two pilots flying instead of one

Ramphex · Jun 12, 2023

Knightshade said:
Congrats, more than 1 of those worked!

Vid 1- Autopark safely autoparks.
Vids 2 and 3- FSD drives safely, though turns the signal on inappropriately a few times... but on single lane roads so not it would've been dangerous for someone trying to pass you or something.

WilliamG · Jun 12, 2023

drtimhill said:
And that's your problem, at the end of day. If you cant cope with the FSD beta then dont use it. Simple, really.

That’s not a great argument (plus a tad rude). This isn’t about me. It’s about a product that is not currently and never will be (on HW3/4) what it was promised to be.

Knightshade · Jun 12, 2023

WilliamG said:
You keep posting this years old misleading page by today’s standards. It’s clearly telling the buyer that the currently-enabled features (AP/EAP etc) require driver supervision. This is irrelevant when all the parts we are discussing here are in relation to the “coming later this year” portion of that page, which is the FSD part, and which any reasonable person would take to understand was not part of those currently-enabled features.

Dude... it's the SAME page today just they moved one of the features from coming to here.

And left the same NOT AUTONOMOUS warning.

Because that applies to ALL the features listed... both existing and coming.

Here's what it says today

City streets in the beta is activated today

It's just not in the "you don't have to ask for it" public release.

And just as the stoplight thing, it was, will be, and was intended from the start to be, L2.

As confirmed in the CA DMV docs as well.

Since the changes in March 2019 Tesla has never, ever, promised a buyer more than that.

Knightshade · Jun 12, 2023

Ramphex said:
View attachment 946199

My days of not taking you seriously are definitely coming to a middle.

If you think "turn signal on wrongly" is "literally being on fire" don't ever drive in Florida

drtimhill · Jun 12, 2023

WilliamG said:
You keep posting this years old misleading page by today’s standards. It’s clearly telling the buyer that the currently-enabled features (AP/EAP etc) require driver supervision. This is irrelevant when all the parts we are discussing here are in relation to the “coming later this year” portion of that page, which is the FSD part, and which any reasonable person would take to understand was not part of those currently-enabled features.

What's clear here is you WANT it to be read that way, but in fact that is not clear at all. FSD, by definition, must be an "enabled feature" since you are using it. (Can you explain how you can use a disabled feature?) The fact that is is beta doesn't enter into the equation.

Ramphex · Jun 12, 2023

Knightshade said:
Dude... it's the SAME page today just they moved one of the features from coming to here.

And left the same NOT AUTONOMOUS warning.

Because that applies to ALL the features listed... both existing and coming.

Get Tesla to push me the Junk version that can drive like that, with me being hands free. That’s what was advertised.

Knightshade said:
My days of not taking you seriously are definitely coming to a middle.

If you think "turn signal on wrongly" is "literally being on fire" don't ever drive in Florida

Do you take every single thing literally? I think you might be too old in comparison to me, and we might just not be working on the same frequencies.

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