FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[jebinc]

It's probably due more to the various factors (traffic, lighting, nav route, etc ) that affect FSDb averaging out as the driver undertakes additional trips.

Do you mean that effect averages out in the drivers brain (I call that the placebo effect) or that the local FSD(j) instance running in the car is averaging and making difference decisions? I can believe the former, but certainly not the latter.

But, more importantly, what is @Ramphex view?!

 

[jabloomf1230]

Do you mean that effect averages out in the
drivers brain (I call that the placebo effect) or that the local FSD(j) instance running in the car is averaging and making difference decisions? I can believe the former, but certainly not the latter.



But, more importantly, what is @Ramphex view?!

 

[aronth5]

Seriously, how is this even possible? The on board software does not evolve within the car. Clearly a placebo effect, or driver learning/acceptance curve.

If there any proof of how this could even happen (“settling down”)???

"11.3.6 seems to be settling down which is consistent with releases that seem to improve over a couple of weeks. No idea why this appears to happen."
Notice I said "appears" to happen. All I know is after most releases some of the really bad behavior slowly seems to go away. Whether there is some local caching or perhaps the new navigation maps I got after 11.3.6 is affecting performance is unclear. Or maybe a minor update from Tesla who knows but I am now pushing 80%+ disengagement free drives. Still lots of interventions but they are mostly the accelerator pushing FSD to get going. V11 is just a whole lot better for me especially highway driving.

 

[Ramphex]

At least for FSD I'm very glad I don't have a steering yoke. At least with the steering wheel I just let the wheel slide thru my hand(s). Super easy and I'm always in control. The yoke for FSD at least would seem to be a nightmare based on all the videos I've watched. No wonder some posters view the yoke jerking as a major problem.

I love the yoke, would not trade it back for a wheel. I have a wheel in my Model Y so I get to drive both rather often and I prefer the yoke. It’s all a matter of a personal preference though.

 

[EVNow]

Seriously, how is this even possible? The on board software does not evolve within the car. Clearly a placebo effect, or driver learning/acceptance curve.

If there any proof of how this could even happen (“settling down”)???

There was a discussion about this sometime back. See Very green’s tweets about AP meta data Tesla can download that can definitely improve the drive.

 

[JHCCAZ]

I love the yoke, would not trade it back for a wheel. I have a wheel in my Model Y so I get to drive both rather often and I prefer the yoke. It’s all a matter of a personal preference though.

I've toyed with the idea of buying one of the aftermarket yoke steering wheels for my Y, but I wasn't sure how it would do with FSD. You're saying it's no problem?

I've been sitting on a set of those progressive LED turn signal flashers, to put down low where the bumper reflectors are. I like the idea , but I'm holding off the installation until FSD learns not to false-blank every half mile. It's already annoying to others and embarrassing to me; I don't need the whoop whoop lights calling even more attention to that spastic behavior!

 

[Ramphex]

I've toyed with the idea of buying one of the aftermarket yoke steering wheels for my Y, but I wasn't sure how it would do with FSD. You're saying it's no problem?

I've been sitting on a set of those progressive LED turn signal flashers, to put down low where the bumper reflectors are. I like the idea , but I'm holding off the installation until FSD learns not to false-blank every half mile. It's already annoying to others and embarrassing to me,l; I don't need the whoop whoop lights calling even more attention to that spastic behavior!

I don’t think there’s any issue with the yoke design or functionality. My gripes are with FSDj making me have to tug on it constantly, because just relaxing my hand on it isn’t enough. It’s the same tugging annoyance with the AP on my non-FSD Model Y.

 

[JulienW]

Don't watch the TeslaBull videos but looks like they are outdoing WholeMars with Youtube titles. Should have waited for one more so it could be double digits.

Tesla FSD Beta V11.4 - 4K - Zero disengagements after 9 drives​

 

[JohnB007]

I love the yoke, would not trade it back for a wheel. I have a wheel in my Model Y so I get to drive both rather often and I prefer the yoke. It’s all a matter of a personal preference though.

In what ways is it better?

It's a curiosity question.

 

[Ramphex]

In what ways is it better?

It's a curiosity question.

I find it comfortable. I usually rest my hand at the bottom left corner. Not having the top part gives a nice view of the dash. Is it revolutionary? No. I doubted it at first for the car, obv like it in planes, but now I like it in both planes and cars lol.

 

[Jeff N]

- search and you will see someone complaining about jerky steering by Waymo. You just don't feel it from the back seat - just like my kids don't feel the jerky steering by FSDb

I’ve ridden a couple of times in a “driverless” Waymo recently and quite a bit in “driverless” Cruise vehicles and there is a big difference in smoothness of steering, acceleration, and braking between them and Tesla FSD. It’s not subtle. Cruise and Waymo have their moments of indecision but they don’t thrash around in the same way when it happens.

I tend to think that Tesla has been focusing relentlessly on getting their underlying fundamentals to be solid and just hasn’t prioritized passenger g-force comfort yet. Tesla at some point soon really needs to fix the g-force issues. Everything their “driver” does needs to be A LOT smoother and more averaged-out.

 

[fasteddie7]

Because it is internal testing ONLY. Likely internal will get 11.4.1 early next week and if all goes well we will see it released next week to a few influences and then 11.4.2 about 2 weeks that starts rolling out.

Excited to try it, hopefully it brings back smart summon and park assist, then again, this might not even be for hw4 vehicles, and I’m getting excited to try out features that might not come for a long while…

 

[kabin]

11.4 looks very similar to 11.3.x.

At times still runs wide on turns. You can hear the tires drive over the reflectors.

Still failing to maintain the lane on left turns.

Cutting the corner on a left turn again.

Runs a red light.

 

[thewishmaster]

Runs a red light.

and acts like a jerk to get ahead of the car to the left as the two lanes are merging

 

[EVNow]

I’ve ridden a couple of times in a “driverless” Waymo recently and quite a bit in “driverless” Cruise vehicles and there is a big difference in smoothness of steering, acceleration, and braking between them and Tesla FSD. It’s not subtle. Cruise and Waymo have their moments of indecision but they don’t thrash around in the same way when it happens.

Have you ridden in a Tesla with FSDb in the backseat ?

There is a huge difference when you are in the drivers seat and backseat.

I keep giving examples where that guy who uses FSDb for Uber professionally has dozens of videos but you won't believe it. A lot of people don't even know they are in a FSDb Tesla. They think the guy is driving.

 

[aronth5]

I don’t think there’s any issue with the yoke design or functionality. My gripes are with FSDj making me have to tug on it constantly, because just relaxing my hand on it isn’t enough. It’s the same tugging annoyance with the AP on my non-FSD Model Y.

I love the yoke, would not trade it back for a wheel. I have a wheel in my Model Y so I get to drive both rather often and I prefer the yoke. It’s all a matter of a personal preference though.

Do you use FSD in both cars?

 

[Dennisis]

11.4 looks very similar to 11.3.x.

At times still runs wide on turns. You can hear the tires drive over the reflectors.

Still failing to maintain the lane on left turns.

Cutting the corner on a left turn again.

Runs a red light.

Well that’s why they check it out before releasing to us beta testers right? I’m sure there will be some fixes before we get to put it through the paces - looking forward to it. Good to see it being worked.

 

[fasteddie7]

Is there anyone with an hw4 vehicle on the FSD beta yet?

 

[JulienW]

Is there anyone with an hw4 vehicle on the FSD beta yet?

Don't believe that is possible since all HW4 cars are on 23 software (unless I'm mistaken). Never know for sure but if history is a guide it will likly be at least several months before the software is ready for HW4. Unfortunately Tesla is notoriously bad at releasing or removing hardware LONG before the software is ready. Tesla is soooooo aspirational on their ability to provided software that they never let it stop them from making hardware changes.

 

[fasteddie7]

Don't believe that is possible since all HW4 cars are on 23 software (unless I'm mistaken). Never know for sure but if history is a guide it will likly be at least several months before the software is ready for HW4. Unfortunately Tesla is notoriously bad at releasing or removing hardware LONG before the software is ready. Tesla is soooooo aspirational on their ability to provided software that they never let it stop them from making hardware changes.

I’m hoping since I’m not getting 2023.12 automatically downloaded that hw4 will be included in the upcoming 2023.6.15 update, even though you’re probably right and it’ll be months before hw4 sees summon, autopark, and fsd.