FSD Beta v11.x

sleepydoc · Jun 10, 2023

EVNow said:
That broke me

Breaked you!

Your welcome for the grammar correction.

EVNow · Jun 10, 2023

Z_Lynx said:
Intent to drive past left turning car:

Thats interesting ... the stop sign is visualized. May be the car thinks the stop sign is for the other side ... ?

Does it actually stop there if there isn't any car infront or does it just run the stop sign?

EVNow · Jun 10, 2023

sleepydoc said:
Breaked you!

Now I'm really broken

EVNow · Jun 10, 2023

Therealm80 said:
Well this is not surprising https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/10/tesla-autopilot-crashes-elon-musk/

Thats a hit piece, specifically ignoring all the caveats emphasized by NHTSA.

There was a long discussion on this when the report came out. It is really OT to this thread.

drtimhill · Jun 10, 2023

jebinc said:
"Beta" classification is misused and abused by Telsa - Defects rates fit more a pre-alpha classification. Also, many Telsa non FSD beta features have been in the "Beta" state" for nearly a decade. Fact.

But it's so misused now (and has been for years) that the original alpha/beta classifications are all but wiped out. Google have products in beta for years. Apple release "beta" versions of macOS missing ½ the features, let alone having buggy versions of them.

EVNow · Jun 10, 2023

drtimhill said:
But it's so misused now (and has been for years) that the original alpha/beta classifications are all but wiped out. Google have products in beta for years. Apple release "beta" versions of macOS missing ½ the features, let alone having buggy versions of them.

Beta now just means open, public testing.

Irrespective of what some might assume, all companies have some quality bar that needs to be met before releasing such versions.

WilliamG · Jun 10, 2023

EVNow said:
Beta now just means open, public testing.

Irrespective of what some might assume, all companies have some quality bar that needs to be met before releasing such versions.

Just happens to be that Tesla’s is exceptionally low. FSD is certainly not in beta. It’s alpha, and then some.

EVNow · Jun 10, 2023

WilliamG said:
Just happens to be that Tesla’s is exceptionally low. FSD is certainly not in beta. It’s alpha, and then some.

Compared to shrub being mistaken for a human ? Or compared to Alexa not able to recognize > 90% of my song requests (because they are Indian) ?

JHCCAZ · Jun 10, 2023

sleepydoc said:
Your welcome for the grammar correction.

Uh oh

Knightshade · Jun 10, 2023

WilliamG said:
For the record, and on another note, my 2016 VW Golf R had RADAR and adaptive cruise and it never, ever, ever had a single instance of phantom braking. How come Teslas, even with RADAR before it was disabled, struggle here?

Volkswagens Needlessly Brake on Their Own Due to Defects in the Front Assist Technology

VW's collision avoidance technology is detecting objects that don't exist. When that happens it slams on the brakes and ends up putting unsuspecting occupants in harm's way. A lawsuit wants the automaker to do more than simply suggest that owners turn the premium feature off.

www.vwproblems.com

Volkswagens Needlessly Brake on Their Own Due to Defects in the Front Assist Technology

Owners say it will also apply the brakes when there is no imminent collision. Sometimes it will detect something that's not there and stop the car in the middle of the road.

Among the cars specifically mentioned:
the 2016 VW Jetta, Beetle, CC, e-Golf, Golf, Golf GTI, Golf R and Golf SportWagen

Again every brand of car with radar has had this problem.

Some worse than others (some had braking issues so bad massive recalls and lawsuit happened)- but everyone has the problem generally, even if you find anecdotal "WELL IT NEVER HAPPENED TO ME" folks.

Knightshade · Jun 10, 2023

BTW can you guys point to the official legal definitions of alpha and beta you're using to speak with such certainty about what's what in this regard?

Or are you each just using whatever random definition fits your point of view?

WilliamG · Jun 10, 2023

Knightshade said:
Volkswagens Needlessly Brake on Their Own Due to Defects in the Front Assist Technology

VW's collision avoidance technology is detecting objects that don't exist. When that happens it slams on the brakes and ends up putting unsuspecting occupants in harm's way. A lawsuit wants the automaker to do more than simply suggest that owners turn the premium feature off.

www.vwproblems.com

Among the cars specifically mentioned:
the 2016 VW Jetta, Beetle, CC, e-Golf, Golf, Golf GTI, Golf R and Golf SportWagen

Again every brand of car with radar has had this problem.

Some worse than others (some had braking issues so bad massive recalls and lawsuit happened)- but everyone has the problem generally, even if you find anecdotal "WELL IT NEVER HAPPENED TO ME" folks.

How about, I don’t know a single person with a Tesla who has not had phantom braking on the highway, and I don’t know a single person driving a VW who’s had the car emergency brake on the highway?

Still anecdotal? Sure. Still true? Absolutely.

Krash · Jun 10, 2023

EVNow said:
…Good point on this thread, we should remove the wiki part of it and make it a plain sticky thread - @Krash ?

I’ve never tried that before. I just now changed the prefix. Not sure if that actually removes others’ ability to edit the front page. Who else wants to check?

Knightshade · Jun 10, 2023

WilliamG said:
How about, I don’t know a single person with a Tesla who has not had phantom braking on the highway, and I don’t know a single person driving a VW who’s had the car emergency brake on the highway?

Still anecdotal? Sure. Still true? Absolutely.

To be fair, I don't know a single person driving a VW so I can't offer counter evidence

Didn't have much trouble finding such owners online complaining about it though.

And it seems like the problem didn't stop with those models I mentioned before, even the current ID4 owners have it-

Unprovoked emergency braking

www.vwidtalk.com

Hilariously there's the same thing over in that forum... multiple people reporting the problem, then the occasional "this never happens to me, all your cars must be broken" poster.

Brakes applied automatically because of imminent...

www.vwidtalk.com

Phantom Braking

www.vwidtalk.com

THIS one is extra good because it includes:

It happened in my Golf once

So kinda 2 birds with 1 stone there

EVNow · Jun 10, 2023

Krash said:
I’ve never tried that before. I just now changed the prefix. Not sure if that actually removes others’ ability to edit the front page. Who else wants to check?

I can still edit - but the its not marked as a "wiki" in the thread list. And the first post still calls it a wiki and preview shows up on each page. I guess a forum bug.

WilliamG · Jun 10, 2023

Knightshade said:
To be fair, I don't know a single person driving a VW so I can't offer counter evidence

Didn't have much trouble finding such owners online complaining about it though.

And it seems like the problem didn't stop with those models I mentioned before, even the current ID4 owners have it-

Unprovoked emergency braking

www.vwidtalk.com

Hilariously there's the same thing over in that forum... multiple people reporting the problem, then the occasional "this never happens to me, all your cars must be broken" poster.

Brakes applied automatically because of imminent...

www.vwidtalk.com

Phantom Braking

www.vwidtalk.com

THIS one is extra good because it includes:

So kinda 2 birds with 1 stone there

I don’t doubt any of the reports. It’s interesting because I drive the exact same roads I did in my Golf in my Tesla. One Golf = 0 phantom braking events. Three Teslas = 3x phantom braking vehicles. I’m also curious as to how vision only has solved the problems Elon says it does. What problems were solved?

EVNow · Jun 10, 2023

WilliamG said:
How about, I don’t know a single person with a Tesla who has not had phantom braking on the highway, and I don’t know a single person driving a VW who’s had the car emergency brake on the highway?

Still anecdotal? Sure. Still true? Absolutely.

Knightshade said:
And it seems like the problem didn't stop with those models I mentioned before, even the current ID4 owners have it-

Many of us live in TMC / Tesla bubble and don't see other forums often enough. I suggest all the #TeamJunk members to start perusing other forums for some realworld comparison.

WilliamG · Jun 10, 2023

EVNow said:
Many of us live in TMC / Tesla bubble and don't see other forums often enough. I suggest all the #TeamJunk members to start perusing other forums for some realworld comparison.

You don’t think I lived on every car’s messageboards when I owned whatever brand?

WilliamG · Jun 10, 2023

Knightshade said:
To be fair, I don't know a single person driving a VW so I can't offer counter evidence

Didn't have much trouble finding such owners online complaining about it though.

And it seems like the problem didn't stop with those models I mentioned before, even the current ID4 owners have it-

Unprovoked emergency braking

www.vwidtalk.com

Hilariously there's the same thing over in that forum... multiple people reporting the problem, then the occasional "this never happens to me, all your cars must be broken" poster.

Brakes applied automatically because of imminent...

www.vwidtalk.com

Phantom Braking

www.vwidtalk.com

THIS one is extra good because it includes:

So kinda 2 birds with 1 stone there

Oh, and also wanted to add that those VW phantom braking events are anomalous - and defects as far as I can tell. Even the responses are basically take the car into service. If every Tesla owner experiencing phantom braking went into service, every Tesla would be in service.

Z_Lynx · Jun 10, 2023

EVNow said:
Thats interesting ... the stop sign is visualized. May be the car thinks the stop sign is for the other side ... ?

Does it actually stop there if there isn't any car infront or does it just run the stop sign?

On that post I included a second pic showing the car with an intent to run and no car in front. On this and the last version, there has been a 100% incidence of intent to run (no one in front).

Because of the correct placement of the stop sign in the visualization (not located on the far side of the intersecting road), it should be interpreted as a stop sign for the road I'm traveling on. In earlier fsdb versions it would occasionally stop.

This is what the car saw before it got to the road it intended to run:

FSD Beta v11.x

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