FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[sleepydoc]

So if I’m reading you right, please correct me if I’m wrong, if FSD is safer with a good driver and a good driver is good without FSD, please share how FSD can make a good driver safer when the whole definition of a good driver is somebody with a record like yours who got that without FSD but somehow you’d be even better with FSD because you’re there to stoop it’s failures. Sorry. Im confused.

It's simple - 2 sets of eyes are better than one and even a good driver makes mistakes, can get distracted or can miss things. Have you ever been driving with a passenger and they say 'watchout!' because the car in front of you slammed on their brakes while you were looking down at the radio?

 

[sleepydoc]

Could be just the map ? That would account for why FSD consistently ignores particular “no turn” and observes some other “no turn” signs.

maybe - none of the cases I've experienced have had a 'no turn' sign, the car has just stopped at a red light and not attempted to make the right turn.

 

[sleepydoc]

Anyone else experiencing this side-to-side wobble? See video. It's pretty bad! It started with 11.3.6 and no change with recent update to 11.4.2

Only when the car is driving. I tried both FSDb or TACC same thing.
If I disengage I don't feel anything our of the ordinary. Even without touching the wheel the car goes straight as an arrow.

Below 50 mph hardly any wobble at all, but above 65 mph it gets really noticeable.
The faster I go and the more it wobbles. It's making my GF sick so this is serious!!

Only on AP/FSDb. Driving manual ... smooth as butter.

Had an alignment, made no difference.
Tires are in good shape; rear are new and front have lots of thread left... suspension inspected and all is tight ... no idea what to do

Must have missed that post amongst all the people complaining that FSD is utter junk...

if it's only doing it when TACC and FSD are engaged then it's not a mechanical issue like alignment or tires. How fast is it? It it a shimmy (fast), a wobble (medium) or more of a slower wandering in the lane? Have you tried re-calibrating the cameras? That's easy and free. If the car's trying to decide between cameras that are out of calibration it could explain the issue.

 

[EVNow]

maybe - none of the cases I've experienced have had a 'no turn' sign, the car has just stopped at a red light and not attempted to make the right turn.

In my case there are two “no turn on red” in particular- both with signs. But in one FSD will try to turn and in the other it won’t. In the one it won’t the no turn sign is in a couple of places including right above the right turn signal. That could also be the difference.

But my money is on the map. If the map has the no turn on red flag, it won’t turn.

 

[kabin]

With the last few releases I've found FSDb to be inconsistent in taking right turns on red. It could be that these anecdotal reports are actually because of bugs in the right turn on red algorithms. Or it could be that they have a very buggy algorithm to recognize 'no right turn on red' and it's getting it wrong.

Or maybe they overfit no right on red.

 

[kabin]

Anyone else experiencing this side-to-side wobble? See video. It's pretty bad! It started with 11.3.6 and no change with recent update to 11.4.2

Only when the car is driving. I tried both FSDb or TACC same thing.
If I disengage I don't feel anything our of the ordinary. Even without touching the wheel the car goes straight as an arrow.

Below 50 mph hardly any wobble at all, but above 65 mph it gets really noticeable.
The faster I go and the more it wobbles. It's making my GF sick so this is serious!!

Only on AP/FSDb. Driving manual ... smooth as butter.

Had an alignment, made no difference.
Tires are in good shape; rear are new and front have lots of thread left... suspension inspected and all is tight ... no idea what to do

They might be evaluating a new lullaby mode. Seriously, there have been complaints with Model X and S.

 

[Pdubs]

It's simple - 2 sets of eyes are better than one and even a good driver makes mistakes, can get distracted or can miss things. Have you ever been driving with a passenger and they say 'watchout!' because the car in front of you slammed on their brakes while you were looking down at the radio?

No lol. #1 rule of driving a car is, Drive the car.

This kills me lolol. Had a guy slam into me a few years ago. I was at a stop light. His EXACT WORDS, “dude, I looked up and you were there”

Question I had was, “You looked up???”

 

[jebinc]

They might be evaluating a new lullaby mode. Seriously, there have been complaints with Model X and S.

Lot’s of FSDj complaints from refreshed S/X members here.

 

[fasteddie7]

.But my money is on the map. If the map has the no turn on red flag, it won’t turn.

That brings an issue with places that have a no turn on red sign with time of day / level of traffic as a condition. There's a few signs in Pittsburgh that are lit up when you can't turn on red, and turned off when you can.

 

[uscbucsfan]

That brings an issue with places that have a no turn on red sign with time of day / level of traffic as a condition. There's a few signs in Pittsburgh that are lit up when you can't turn on red, and turned off when you can.

The car will likely do what people do and ignore them until they are individually programmed.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Man 11.4.3 is a massive step back from 11.4.2. For a bug fix, it's like night and day. I've had it almost a week and it's been bad.

 

[FOOLSLFDRVNG]

I got the opportunity to do some 11.3.6/11.4.2 comparison testing this weekend.
First was my 75% highway daily commute which was pretty good with 11.3.6 but still had plenty of times where I would have to either take over or just manually drive.
With 11.4.2 it was honestly the best behaved commute I've ever had with FSD or AP. Highway corners and passing trucks is much more natural and feels safer. Only two takeovers needed, which for my commute is a huge improvement.

The second test is my drive out to weekend camping, 50ish miles each way. Mostly smaller roads on the first half and fast highway the second half and reverse on the way home.
The smaller road part was significantly better, not a single takeover at all, really smooth and natural. The second half on the divided highway but with side roads etc was appalling, easily the worst FSD has been in a long time. It was constantly changing lanes for no reason, only to change back half a mile later.
On the way back today I let it zigzag its way down the highway for 5 minutes before getting bored of the constant lane changes and just manually drove.
I was hoping for a repeat of the good drive on the smaller road section but was sadly disappointed.
The good bits from earlier were still there, but the insanity of some of its decisions was mind boggling.
1 - smooth corner into an acute merge, I looked left to check traffic and FSD alerted, gave the red hands then disengaged
2 - Waiting at a red light in the straight on lane behind another car. As the light went green, FSD started signaling left to either overtake the already moving lead car or try to turn left a the light. I took over.
3 - Waiting at another red light, as light went green the car wasn't even out of the junction and it again started signaling left, there was no lead car this time and there was already other cars in the left lane. For the next mile or so, every time I engaged FSD it would signal left again. I gave up again it this point and drove manually.

The good bits. Its now significantly better at sharp right hand turns at lights, its now starting to cope with flashing yellow warning lights (that aren't traffic lights), it now maintains speed of tight corners and is noticeably smoother.
The bad bits. Lane consistency and control is appalling. Traffic light behavior was ridiculous today, Feels like two steps forward with severe regression on lane choice.

I’m not excited anymore until they fix the phantom lane change. On 2 lane roads I just end trip and let it go straight or let the fool drive.

 

[FOOLSLFDRVNG]

Funny thing is - I & my kids wonder when we see other Teslas on the road whether they are using FSD. We can always tell if they are not - by how bad the lane keeping is. Normally people cross the lines all the time - esp. on curvy roads. Yesterday we had a car in front that rode on the right line the entire way - no doubt distracted by a call or something else.

Anyone want to do an FSD meet and drive? It would be funny that a large group of Teslas all do phantom braking and phantom lane changes and all the bad behaviors at the same places.

 

[jebinc]

Man 11.4.3 is a massive step back from 11.4.2. For a bug fix, it's like night and day. I've had it almost a week and it's been bad.

Yep…..

 

[Dennisis]

Anyone want to do an FSD meet and drive? It would be funny that a large group of Teslas all do phantom braking and phantom lane changes and all the bad behaviors at the same places.

Except they’d probably all do something different, but interesting to see.

 

[JHCCAZ]

What is this clicking and scrolling to change settings you’re talking about? I thought I had this all figured out.

I'm taking that as a serious question, sorry if I'm not picking up on a joke there...

People have noticed, and complained, that the UI implementation for Chill | Average | Aggressive has problems.

If you want to quickly check the setting via the pop-up,

You have to activate the scroll wheel left or right l.
But that very action also changes the setting.
Unless the setting is already at the limit of the left or right selection.

All In all, not very well thought out.

What I posted about in response, was (to me) and easy to learn sequence that lets me get the correct setting without having to look down at the screen at all.

That may not make too much sense for people who have zero problems seeing everything on the screen, but for those of us who have issues with the small-font pastel-colored controls, it's helpful to figure out ways to get what you want without looking at or manipulating the screen.

Having said that, the most common use of the pop-up is probably to set Minimal Lane Changes, which has to be reset for every drive. There's no eyes-off way to do that. I tried the neglected Voice Command interface to see if that would work, but per usual, "This command is not available".

 

[JHCCAZ]

Man 11.4.3 is a massive step back from 11.4.2. For a bug fix, it's like night and day. I've had it almost a week and it's been bad.

You're not the only one reporting this, but for me it's been about the same. My noticeable regressions, in predictable spots, happened on 11.4.2 about a week after I got it. I attribute it to the newest maps update that seem to cancel out some prior fixes.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Seattle in general is one of the most beautiful places abound with rivers, volcanos, wildlife, travel there a Lot. All beautiful for the 5 days a year you can see without rain and clouds. Lol

Agree. With the way my family is now distributed, I would choose Seattle in the summer, Tucson in the winter and East Tennessee in the spring and fall.

Coastal California would be a good choice in any season, if I had any family there - and if I could do it in a time machine.

 

[valem]

They might be evaluating a new lullaby mode. Seriously, there have been complaints with Model X and S.

Yes, it must be lullaby mode... it is a gentle rocking to put me to sleep...
FSD be like, "hey, I got this, you rest"

 

[valem]

Must have missed that post amongst all the people complaining that FSD is utter junk...

if it's only doing it when TACC and FSD are engaged then it's not a mechanical issue like alignment or tires. How fast is it? It it a shimmy (fast), a wobble (medium) or more of a slower wandering in the lane? Have you tried re-calibrating the cameras? That's easy and free. If the car's trying to decide between cameras that are out of calibration it could explain the issue.

Here is a real time video... it is a gentle rocking, like a lullaby...

Camera calibration was the first thing I did before the alignment (since that was free lol)

I am thinking it has to be something in the steering servo overreacting ... if it was mechanical/structural I would have to feel something while driving manually