FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[diplomat33]

I am happy to report that V11.4.8.1 finally fixed the bad speed limit on my drive. There is a college campus road where the speed limit is 15 mph but older versions of FSD beta would read it as 25 mph so it would drive too fast unless I manually adjusted the speed limit. Now, FSD beta reads it correctly as 15 mph and bumps the speed limit down automatically.

 

[pimfram]

I've always wondered why they trickle out the updates for so long. I get you don't want fleet-wide bugs but I want updates, dammit.

 

[uscbucsfan]

I've always wondered why they trickle out the updates for so long. I get you don't want fleet-wide bugs but I want updates, dammit.

It sounds like you understand why, but are impatient.

 

[jebinc]

I've always wondered why they trickle out the updates for so long. I get you don't want fleet-wide bugs but I want updates, dammit.

Is that a rhetorical question?!

 

[EVNow]

You should hope I am - combining auditory and visual cues is good UI design.

Oh yes - but not "subtle" clues that can result in accidents.

Yesterday I had to try 3 times - first two times no sound (may be the wiper drowned it out ?) - then I got a warning sound when FSD engaged because it was raining. Great design, that !

ps : Ofcourse the basic issue remains - why does FSD not engage when the "wheel" is showing ?

Also, engaging FSD but resulting in TACC is only 10% of the problem. 90% is when I disengage with the wheel and TACC is still on.

 

[EVNow]

I've always wondered why they trickle out the updates for so long. I get you don't want fleet-wide bugs but I want updates, dammit.

We all want updates soon.

But we all think it won't make much of a difference.

But, we just want to check it out to make sure ...

 

[jebinc]

Spectacurrendous lane selection and flailing here:

Still wishing TMC admin would add a :sad reaction emoticon....

 

[JulienW]

I've always wondered why they trickle out the updates for so long.....

V10.3

 

[Tronguy]

Thanks for the suggestions. After the earlier reply I tried again and got dinged flashflash BEEBEE with my hand lightly on the wheel, etc. I might put a balaclava on and see if I notice a difference ha ha ha ha. Does my cabin camera see anything in detail???

Um. If you just put your hand lightly on the wheel and try to keep it there, the car won't detect the torque on the wheel. From my experience, say one has both hands on the wheel: The mass of both hands and arms kind of balance out and, if the car takes a vertical jiggle, that balances out, too. The car gets the idea that There's Nobody There and complains in pretty short order.

That's why the one-hand trick kind of works: the vertical jiggling of the car translates, what with the mass of the hand/arm grabbed onto the wheel, to random torques on the steering wheel, which makes the car (correctly) think you're there.

The problem with this is it is one-hand driving and, when FSD-b blows it or some maniac comes at your car and your mammalian brain has a better idea of What To Do Next than the silicon one in the car, you'll be doing death-defying maneuvers with one hand, which is suboptimal to doing it with both. (And the delay to get the Other Hand attached isn't a feature of this approach, it's a bug.) Which is why, personally, I like the two-handed approach to keeping life and limb attached.

As far as the camera goes: On all the cars driven so far (2018 M3, 2021 MY, and a 2023 M3), when in FSD-b/EAP, it makes a flying stab guess as to whether your eyes are out the windshield or not. Stare at the screen, curiously, as one goes around a corner and the system will complain at you. The delay between eyes-not-at-front and alarm is long enough so if one is doing the usual scan at rear view mirrors and the occasional glance out the side windows, no alarm occurs. Further, if one is, say, changing stations on the radio, a few seconds of looking doesn't raise the alarm, but 15 seconds definitely does.

It has been noted by many that, when wearing sunglasses or at night, the camera system does a less aggressive check on what one is looking at. I think I've heard that some of the more recent Teslas come with an IR camera up there, which presumably can see in the dark and through sunglasses, but I'm not sure.

 

[rlsd]

It looks like everyone tested new features of 11.4.8.1 already. I will test the remaining one: Speed Trap. My test plan: If I drive 30 miles and I don't hear the car saying there is a speed trap then the test fails.

 

[willow_hiller]

It looks like everyone tested new features of 11.4.8.1 already. I will test the remaining one: Speed Trap. My test plan: If I drive 30 miles and I don't hear the car saying there is a speed trap then the test fails.

It's a feature of the upcoming Christmas update. No word yet whether it will impact FSD behavior, as these notes are from European cars and they don't have FSD:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1732586062634266689

 

[jebinc]

It looks like everyone tested new features of 11.4.8.1 already. I will test the remaining one: Speed Trap. My test plan: If I drive 30 miles and I don't hear the car saying there is a speed trap then the test fails.

Go through a school loading zone, with the reduced speed limit signs are flashing.... or follow a school bus to see if it still tries to pass/go around a school bus loading/unloading children....

 

[EVNow]

Spectacurrendous lane selection and flailing here:

Haven't watched it yet. But I've to say ... I usually avoid anything that claims to be "the truth" or "honest" .... feels clickbaity, and worse the opposite of what they are claiming.

 

[Twiglett]

Got to do the commute with 11.4.8.1 - overall the usual mix of improvements and regressions.
For the first time in a while it dry wiped the screen <10 times, slight improvement. Only better because I was expecting it to be worse
Highway driving was definitely better, with less tendency to let big gaps happen, much less of an elastic feel and much more natural.
Lane keeping was better as was the expected cut-in behavior. Also seemed that the crazy lane switching was reduced.
Main regression was a double left traffic light. On approach it was in the left lane but switched to the right at the last minute. When the light went green it did a reasonable job of turning left (in the right lane), but just before completing the turn it suddenly signaled and tried to turn hard left into left lane.
Probably slightly better for this drive as a whole.

 

[aronth5]

It has been noted by many that, when wearing sunglasses or at night, the camera system does a less aggressive check on what one is looking at. I think I've heard that some of the more recent Teslas come with an IR camera up there, which presumably can see in the dark and through sunglasses, but I'm not sure.

I have HW4 and the monitoring camera still cannot handle my prescription sun glasses. I can stare at the display as long as I want and the car could care less. Day or night. HW3 had the same behavior.

 

[willow_hiller]

Haven't watched it yet. But I've to say ... I usually avoid anything that claims to be "the truth" or "honest" .... feels clickbaity, and worse the opposite of what they are claiming.

Also see the subreddit "/r/realtesla". They claim to be open and honest place to discuss Tesla, but just look at their sidebar description, lol:

If you're interested in discussing the polarizing, ongoing soap opera that is Tesla, but you refuse to drink the Tesla Cult Kool-Aid, this is the place for you. ... fanboi trolls will be banned faster than Elon can lie about FSD.

 

[sleepydoc]

I think this is really for people with stalkless teslas, and they are pushing it to older model 3's/y's in preparation for highlander(3 refresh)/juniper(y refresh) to reduce differences in code between the 4 cars.

On the refreshed X, we've had an option for a single button press to activate FSD for a long time now. This is my preferred method because a button press on a yoke does not feel as confident as a tap on a stalk. Not to mention your hand may have to chase the moving autopilot button whereas the stalk doesn't move with the wheel. It's in the same place all the time. While it wasn't common, when I had two presses on my X to enable FSD, I was accidently entering TACC when I meant to enter FSD from thinking I pressed twice, but only one press registering. This almost threw me into a curve one time, and since then I've had my X on single click. For disengaging FSD Beta in the X, I want to fully exit all autonomous systems, not downgrade to TACC. So this works well for me. I do slightly miss TACC but the method for enabling TACC vs FSD Beta in the X never felt safe to me. In the Y, I'm happy it's there, just for consistency between my two vehicles, but I agree it doesn't make much sense for tesla's with stalks.

Ah - compensating for poor hardware design with poor software design.

They really ought to call it “disable TACC,” since that‘s what it does.

 

[sleepydoc]

Oh yes - but not "subtle" clues that can result in accidents.

Yesterday I had to try 3 times - first two times no sound (may be the wiper drowned it out ?) - then I got a warning sound when FSD engaged because it was raining. Great design, that !

Well, if the alerts are too soft to hear, that’s an entirely different issue.

ps : Ofcourse the basic issue remains - why does FSD not engage when the "wheel" is showing ?

Also, engaging FSD but resulting in TACC is only 10% of the problem. 90% is when I disengage with the wheel and TACC is still on.

That’s exactly the behavior I want. If I don’t wan’t TACC then I hit the stalk or the brake. Until FSD improves there will still be a significant use/need for TACC. Denying that is delusional on Tesla’s part.

 

[MP3Mike]

Yesterday I had to try 3 times - first two times no sound (may be the wiper drowned it out ?)

I'm curious do you have "Joe Mode" enabled? If so, they greatly reduced the volume of alerts/notifications in Joe mode in a recent update. Enough that I had to turn it off. (And of course now they are too loud, but that is better than too quiet.)

 

[old pilot]

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finance.yahoo.com