FSD rewrite will go out on Oct 20 to limited beta

[thewishmaster]

I'm impressed. Unlike nearly everyone else, I hate the visualization in "new" form and hope it's just there temporarily.

They probably just threw elements of the dev UI into the regular screen view for testing purposes as the final V11 UI is not ready yet. Some of the elements look pretty much like the dev visualizations they showed off at presentations or on the AP recruiting page.

 

[DanCar]

It’s just for the early beta .. production will be much calmer (as you don’t want to distract the driver)

Will we move from beta to production in ten years?

 

[Daniel in SD]

Yep very cool. I think of it as the most expensive video game ever. Too rich for me. Although I'm excited for everyone who is helping Tesla learn and improve. Hopefully we can get to level 3 within three years.

Yep, I'm ready to fork over my monthly fee when it no longer requires supervision. If I wanted to be a safety driver I could have a company pay me to do that.
I'm looking forward to the fail videos. Waymo and Cruise never post those.

 

[EVNow]

The hacker in question has full access to the system and can see all the details of the collection campaigns, and all the actual data being sent to Tesla.

You don't know what you don't know. Checkout my earlier comments on this.

BTW, I do agree people attribute all kinds of magical functionalities to shadow mode. I just don't think green has 100% visibility of everything.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

That's sometimes tricky even for a human. When in doubt, I'd slow down and steer clear of them. Sometimes they're distracted. If there's not enough space I'll either stop or honk.

Yeah I had one today where the pedestrian was at the crossing to cross, but gestured to me to drive. As I’m a polite driver *shucks*, I counter motioned them to cross. They didn’t & after a couple of seconds of stalling where each wasn’t sure if the other would move, I drove through. Can you imagine this scenario for an autonomous car? They have to evaluate facial expressions & body language. Exceedingly difficult!!!

 

[EVNow]

Yeah I had one today where the pedestrian was at the crossing to cross, but gestured to me to drive. As I’m a polite driver *shucks*, I counter motioned them to cross. They didn’t & after a couple of seconds of stalling where each wasn’t sure if the other would move, I drove through. Can you imagine this scenario for an autonomous car? They have to evaluate facial expressions & body language. Exceedingly difficult!!!

Yes - Tesla is still doing the easier parts. But that still covers 90% of my drives - low foot traffic in the suburbs.

 

[M109Rider]

They were up all night after getting the build.

No excuse.

 

[M109Rider]

Rumor is Smart Summon is now amazing. Source: SatinGreyTesla on reddit

I hope that’s true. I’m really glad smart summon is in this. I love smart summon now, can’t wait for the new version !

 

[Knightshade]

You don't know what you don't know. Checkout my earlier comments on this.

BTW, I do agree people attribute all kinds of magical functionalities to shadow mode. I just don't think green has 100% visibility of everything.

I guess I just don't understand why you think that or what evidence you have to support that opinion.

The data the car collects and uploads is not encrypted, there's no reason at all he can't see 100% of everything. (nor is he the only one who sees this stuff, he's just the one who comments publicly on it more often, anybody else with access who has ever commented AFAIK has only confirmed his findings- and again numerous comments by Musk and Karpathy themselves have confirmed it... as recently as *checks* yesterday... with Musk commenting during the earnings call on the data collection of the fleet where the system is looking for specific corner case example to train against- exactly the targeted campaign system Green has described for a while now)


Certainly the re-write might do new things other than just collect specific largely static data as Green has cited- but the version 99.9% of everyone has been running since 2016 does not.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

Yes - Tesla is still doing the easier parts. But that still covers 90% of my drives - low foot traffic in the suburbs.

Yes - the old ‘80/20 rule’
The thing is, the pedestrian crossing scenario is nowhere near some of the more complex scenarios I can think of
Hence why I wish Musk would grow a neuron & stop misrepresenting Tesla’s FSD attempts as anything remotely close to Level 5

 

[powertoold]

The data the car collects and uploads is not encrypted, there's no reason at all he can't see 100% of everything.

I think what EVNow is saying is that green only see's the API calls / software function calls / namespace definitions / text files associated with the software / etc. He doesn't see the code and things that Tesla is doing under the hood. One of Elon / Tesla's main concerns is someone hacking the cars, so I'm sure there's some secure coding practices going on as well.

What green does is also done with Apple devices and software. People are able to gain insight into new products and whatnot by looking at the icon assets / namespace calls / text files in the software bundle / etc. But that's definitely not the whole picture.

 

[Daniel in SD]

If what I'm hearing and seeing about this beta is accurate, L3 is definitely on the horizon. L3, like L4 cannot operate everywhere and in every situation so they may never meet everyone's expectations. And L4 is a tall order as it's knocking on the door of L5. But now, after seeing this, I can't rule it out as a possibility at some point. Still, I think people will be very pleased with a reliable L3.

As far as I'm concerned, this beta throws a big monkey wrench into the the whole 'autosteer on city streets' isn't 'automatic driving on city streets' talk.

Overall, very impressive!!!

Not really, one could interpret "driving" as obeying all traffic laws which the system surely doesn't do yet. There's a huge range between that and "autosteer".
I think you've got it somewhat backwards on L3 vs. L4 vs. L5. Level 3 is almost as difficult as Level 4 because the car has to safely deal with situations for 5-10 seconds before handing over control to the driver. To me that sounds almost as hard as having the car drive all the time.
Level 5 is basically a human driver whereas Level 3-4 can be restricted to certain driving conditions and locations. Waymo has Level 4 vehicles but they're nowhere close to Level 5.

 

[powertoold]

Yup, here

https://twitter.com/teslaownersSV/status/1319142259086913536

That's not an unprotect left turn (see green left arrow in video):

An unprotected left turn occurs at an intersection where there is no traffic light to signal the turn. The critical item is to understand that yielding is defined as "not causing any other drivers to change speed or direction due to your actions as a driver".

 

[M109Rider]

Looking forward to videos of a pedestrian crossing. Particularly one where the pedestrians are proximal - loitering in the vicinity vs actual intention to cross. The car has to gauge intentions

I don’t think this will be too difficult. Meaning, there shouldn’t be a huge thinking process laborious enough to stall things, nor should there be a big risk of hitting someone. (In my opinion).

The computer doesn’t really have to determine intention. Just determine actions.

-If they are on the corner moving out, it waits/stops.
-If they are on the corner not moving, likely a brief pause, then go.
-If they suddenly start moving, the car stops again.
-If they are playing games moving in and out, or just moving around confusing the car, that could be a problem, but that’s not much different for us driving.
-At some point, we start moving, if they come out, we stop again.
Only the computer can do all this thinking quicker than us.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Yup, here

https://twitter.com/teslaownersSV/status/1319142259086913536

I think that's a protected left turn. They need to get a better camera!
Obviously an unprotected turn would be more difficult to do safely but that will need to be evaluated with a much larger sample size!

 

[Knightshade]

I think what EVNow is saying is that green only see's the API calls / software function calls / namespace definitions / text files associated with the software / etc. He doesn't see the code and things that Tesla is doing under the hood. One of Elon / Tesla's main concerns is someone hacking the cars, so I'm sure there's some secure coding practices going on as well.

The discussion was specifically about shadow mode and the data it both collects locally and feeds back to Tesla.

He can absolutely see that. He has in fact posted pretty detailed dives into it, including the one I linked to earlier.

 

[Knightshade]

I think that's a protected left turn. They need to get a better camera!
Obviously an unprotected turn would be more difficult to do safely but that will need to be evaluated with a much larger sample size!
View attachment 601348

Yup- already deleted my post after that being caught- apologies. At a quick glance I saw a car moving the opposite way and assumed... on rewatch the oncoming car is itself turning (presumably with its own turn arrow the other direction)

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

The computer doesn’t really have to determine intention. Just determine actions.

-If they are on the corner moving out, it waits/stops.
-If they are on the corner not moving, likely a brief pause, then go.
-If they suddenly start moving, the car stops again.
-If they are playing games moving in and out, or just moving around confusing the car, that could be a problem, but that’s not much different for us driving.
-At some point, we start moving, if they come out, we stop again.
Only the computer can do all this thinking quicker than us.

Pedestrians have right of way, so it’s more than simply ‘movement’. Also what is defined as ‘movement’? Don’t rush to answer

 

[M109Rider]

Yes - the old ‘80/20 rule’
The thing is, the pedestrian crossing scenario is nowhere near some of the more complex scenarios I can think of
Hence why I wish Musk would grow a neuron & stop misrepresenting Tesla’s FSD attempts as anything remotely close to Level 5

I think his “Attempts” is a statement implying work in progress. That’s not really misrepresentation. It’s his intention to get to level 5. That’s what he’s in the process of doing. Time will tell.
For someone to assume he can’t get there, therefore he must be misrepresenting FSD doesn’t seem right.
It will be a tough road.

 

[M109Rider]

Pedestrians have right of way, so it’s more than simply ‘movement’. Also what is defined as ‘movement’? Don’t rush to answer

They do have right of way. Not sure how that contradicts my earlier reply though.