I thought we'd already cleared this up??! Hard to believe you're still banging that drum.
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FSD rewrite will go out on Oct 20 to limited beta
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Yes we did clear it up.
What I wrote is exactly correct.
Both AS and TACC explicitly state do not use on city streets.
I agree it's nuts we're still banging this drum but some folks can't be bothered to RTFM.
Cyclegamer
Member
Someone shared a list of US Interstate Highway gaps that don't conform to the regulations resulting in a potentially unexpected traffic light or stop sign. Similarly, there are plenty of other highways (where NoA can be active) that switch between controlled-access or not as well as highway on/off ramps that can have traffic control as well, so one could see Tesla claiming that the stop control behavior is an extra safety feature to make sure people don't accidentally enter an intersection when drivers didn't realize they were leaving the highway. Yes, Tesla most likely gets a lot more data because they do allow owners to activate Autopilot on city streets even when the manually officially says not to.
As others have pointed out, "stop control" was moved out of "coming later this year" even with stopping at green lights and manual confirmation, so the threshold for doing the same for "Autosteer on city streets" can be very low. At this point, we're probably a week away from finding out what it will be.
This is a list of what is important to me in order and also my comments on probability it will be in a near-term release.
- Firstly, what I am most excited for is getting the perception rewrite and all the new perception models (with or without new vis). And fortunately, I am feel it is very likely that this is included in the holiday release or at least soon. So I am pumped.
- Next for me would be the new lane keeping / city steering, (maybe this could be called the planning rewrite?) (driving where there are no markings and driving around objects partially in lane even if it means leaving lane) I really hope this goes into a public release soon. However, I actually think this change here adds the most potential danger... far more than that enabling turns, that people seem to think adds the most danger. (I disagree). I hope this feature goes into public release soon, and this would be a really big step.
- Next auto lane change with Nav on city streets, this would be a bonus for me
- No green light confirmation on straight simple roads - would be a bonus
- taking some simple 90 degree turns at intersections with confirmation would be bonus for me
- roundabouts - less interested in this, and also I think less likely to be in wide release soon
Right... It also explicitly says this:
"Autosteer is intended for use only by a fully attentive driver on freeways and highways where access is limited by entry and exit ramps. If you choose to use Autosteer on residential roads, a road without a center divider, or a road where access is not limited, Autosteer may limit the maximum allowed cruising speed and the touchscreen displays a message indicating that speed is restricted."
And as many others have stated (at least those of us who recognize that the world isn't as perfectly binary as you chose to believe it is) they have also added many features that absolutely encourage users to engage AP in areas where you feel that are prohibited from doing so.
And as I've stated many, many times... if they didn't want us to use AP in these scenarios that would not allow us to engage AP except where explicitly allowed per their guidelines.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
On the contrary, that comment was added to TACC, it used to only be there for AS.
This reminds me of folks who cite the bible and then when you point out a part they don't follow they basically say god didn't mean THAT part, just the parts they agree with
Right.
Don't use it here- but if you ignore us and do it anyway it's going to limit your speed.
Yes but you keep being wrong when you state it.
The car largely defers to the driver for deciding what is appropriate.
They don't WANT you to drive into a brick wall either, but the car will let you do it if you really want to.
Not to mention consider how often folks have complained about the maps getting the road details wrong... so if they automatically turned features off entirely based on that data you'd get lots of people complaining about THAT instead.
So they make the choice of telling you explicitly where the system is not intended to be used and then leave it up to the driver to choose to listen to that or not.
Where you keep getting lost is not in the aspect of you CAN turn it on anyway. Everyone agrees that's true.
You get lost in thinking you have any right to be upset when it doesn't work perfectly in places the creator specifically told you it's not supposed to.
So again, there is no "city" autopilot today. It's explicitly not meant to be used there.
You can still turn the system on there if you wish to ignore the manual- but you don't get to be upset if you think it "isn't working right" because it's not intended to
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I think they very much intend to have it in there honestly. It's legal ease to protect them. I think they will have it in there until FSD is rolled out and even then they will have SOME form of verbiage in there to protect them.
It's like those stupid tags on pillows and mattresses that say "Do not remove until penalty of law" or something to that effect. Those warnings have nothing to do with the consumer but they are there for a very discrete reason.
Trust me man... I'm not the one who's lost here.
I'm going to do you a favor and let this one go. Your brain is far too binary for discussing happening in the real world.
Seriously? And should the car enforce speed limits even when you are driving manually? How is this different? Tesla is not responsible for you making bad driving decisions, and this applies equally to engaging driver assists or driving at excess speed. What they are responsible for is explaining safe usage of the car features, which they have done (clearly) in the user manual.
Dude. It currently offers the option to respond to lights and stop signs with FSD computer. There’s no other way for the car to do this than to engage AP.
Yea, seriously.
This is a scenario that they could absolutely not allow you to engage autopilot if they didn't want you to. They don't currently allow you you engage autopilot in certain situations so we know they could disable it if they wanted to. They don't want to.
And stoplights and stop signs?? Sure, there are a few scenarios where these show up on divided highways but come on man. You can't possibly believe this is the ONLY time they expect you to use this feature?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Just like the car reads speed limit signs so they could prevent you from speeding if they didn't want you to.
So by your...let's generously call it logic... Tesla wants everyone to speed.
Otherwise they'd disable the ability to do so...right?
KArnold
Active Member
Not sure I've seen a railroad crossing yet - specifically first in line with drop bars, lights only, or even no lights (yes we still have some of those).
They obviously want you to be able to speed, as in exceed the posted speed limit to keep up with traffic. Why would you drive around at the speed limit all the time, dangerously slower than traffic? Traffic light control didn't allow the +5 and that made it dangerous to use.
There's no point in being pedantic on this issue. Obviously there are "unwritten rules" about acceptable speeds on public roads. Like, if you go 5mph over the speed limit you will most likely not get in any trouble unless the cops are looking for an excuse to pull you over. Any try autonomous vehicle can't be plodding along in the right lane, never exceeding the speed limit by 1 mph under any circumstances. Now, 15mph ? Reckless driving territory? That's different.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I dunno... laws?
In fact of the states that specifically already allow legit auto driving cars, AFAIK they all require them to obey all driving laws- including the speed limit.
I think it's possible Tesla may not do a dribble and release a bunch of features at once. However, I absolutely disagree that 'Tesla FSD' is "all or nothing" in nature.
Self driving in general must be all or nothing absolutely, yes.... but Tesla FSD is not self driving.
And therefore a dribble of features is possible. But I agree they might release City Nav and a bunch of turns and other things all at once.
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