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FSD Timeline Promises (summary)
- Thread starter t3sl4drvr
- Start date
rxlawdude
Active Member
All of the subsequent and relevant disclaimers he failed to bold that clearly refute a promise has been broken as of today.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Absolutely not - because this question and answer has been completely taken out of context.
You need to see the entire presentation etc. There was never a word said on L5 or other levels - but a ton of discussion on geofencing. My interpretation is Musk was talking about non-geofenced & year end - because thats all he talked about during AI. Nothing, nada about levels. Over the years he has talked a LOT about AI but very little about levels.
Big Bets and Broken Promises: A Timeline of Tesla's Self-Driving Aspirations - Consumer Reports
Consumer Reports' detailed timeline of how Tesla brought Autopilot to market—and the challenges it faces.
Full timeline of promises here (the title of this thread).
rxlawdude
Active Member
There was and is no unconditional promise. You guys just seem to skip over that. The promise is FSD will reach feature complete after it is validated and any state-specific jurisdictional issues are worked out.Big Bets and Broken Promises: A Timeline of Tesla's Self-Driving Aspirations - Consumer Reports
Consumer Reports' detailed timeline of how Tesla brought Autopilot to market—and the challenges it faces.www.consumerreports.org
Full timeline of promises here (the title of this thread).
I've not seen such impatience since the days I was an impatient (sic) pharmacist.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
It’s been 5 years. It may be obvious to you and me that developing FSD will probably take decades but most people hear “software validation” and think a much shorter timeframe.
My memory is that robotaxis are coming in 2020 and that they would not be geofenced. Not sure why anyone cares if Tesla doesn’t want to call that L5.
At the time I bought my car, Elon and Tesla were explicit and categorical that if I paid for FSD I would be able to use my car as a robotaxi and that I would be able to send the car off by itself to pick up people, or take people anywhere and come home on its own. Back then, Tesla and Musk, as far as I know, were not using the SAE level designations, but he and they were describing a level 5 car.
Now they're selling "FSD" as a Level 2 car.
Now they're selling "FSD" as a Level 2 car.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I covered this in my response. Again, it comes down to what was said, and what was meant. Elon could have meant anything (we can't know, and people inadvertently or deliberately say things they don't mean all the time), and that's fine. But we have to be clear about what was said. He said that he expected L5 no geofence by the end of the year, when he replied "yes."
I'm completely fine with the idea that he could have meant something different, given the overall context of the discussion. But what he said was he expected L5 no geofence by the end of the year.
And that is the correct (and only in this case - there's no ambiguity in the language; the English language is what it is!) interpretation of what was said. Again, it doesn't mean that Elon meant L5 no geofence by the end of the year - that's a totally different statement. But it is what he said when he said "yes."
No promises though.
rxlawdude
Active Member
Then you have two choices. Wait for it to be delivered, or sell the car and take Tesla to court/arbitration over retaining the full amount for FSD without fully delivering during the time of your ownership.
Twister: If you had a plan drawn up and formed the business to rent out your robotaxi, you might not have to wait to dispose of the car. But "expectation damages" may be a remedy in that specific case. My fellow attorney active on the boards may have additional wisdom to dispense.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
You’re in the wrong thread, this is the thread for complaining about misleading FSD marketing and ridiculous predictions. There are other threads for people who want to sue.
@daniel was knowledgeable enough not to buy FSD.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I have to admit to being pretty baffled by the line of reasoning that goes I AM REALLY MAD ABOUT NON DELIVERY OF THE THING I NEVER BOUGHT.
Seems to make some people happy though.
Seems to make some people happy though.
rxlawdude
Active Member
You don't see those as related issues? Seems the remedy is indeed relevant to the complaining.
The problem with this is it gave the impression that it was ready for validation.
It wasn't ready, and in fact it wasn't even their SW at the time they wrote that.
The initial 2016 FSD video took many takes, and used NVidia's SW.
That "complete validation of the software" was never true, and it wouldn't be true today if they still had it.
Hopefully in a few years they'll finally have something worth validating.
Just because a person doesn't buy FSD doesn't mean that FSD wasn't part of the decision to buy the vehicle.
It did say it was capable of full self driving which at the very least hints at more advanced driving capabilities than anything else available for purchase.
Now that FSD is a subscription it makes its more likely that a person won't buy it unless they're a hard core believer willing to shell out 10K on it.
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Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Not relevant to Tesla fans who disagree with the way FSD is marketed. Whether or not what Tesla does is legal won’t change their opinion.
I do not believe there are people who believed Tesla would achieve FSD and did not pay $3k for it.
I didn't like my wording so I changed it.
Back in 2018 when I bought FSD for $3K I felt like most people buying it did so roughly for the same reasons I did. They didn't actually think Tesla would achieve FSD, but had other reasons. I did so because I felt like Tesla couldn't achieve the EAP feature set with HW2.5. At least not in a high quality way. So I wanted the upgrade to HW3 that was part of the FSD package.
Most of my frustration at Tesla isn't with FSD, but in never really achieving the promise of the EAP feature set. It was $5K by itself, and still lacks the refinement it needs to be a high quality system.
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rxlawdude
Active Member
You know full well that if I have/will/would file(d) a suit, it is not something I can discuss here. Same goes with everyone in the thread. Maybe this is a reason why there is little discussion of actual suits here.
And charge the credit card when they ship, not before. (For my last order the charge was made only when laptop was already onboard a plane from China to US)
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
What legal reason do you imagine supports your claim you can't discuss the fact you filed a suit?
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