FSD V11 Discussion - First Released 11/11/22 at 11:11PM - Maybe

(moderator note: Added maybe to the title. This may be an alpha or beta release, so “release” is relative. Stay tuned.)

We finally have confirmation of the release of FSD V11. This presumably is single stack; we’ll see, as the question was left unanswered. I guess it will still be called FSD Beta V11?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1591336830389067778

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[goRt]

March 2023 for full wide release

World wide stitching the vision feed into the planner?

 

[Massive Attack]

Don't know what your driving. I have seen nothing but regression over the last two or three releases - and a perceptively wider gap between releases.

Sounds like your drive is different from ours, but I have been extremely impressed with 2022.20.19 (FSD 10.69.2.4)!

It is crushing the roundabouts and does fantastic pulling around vehicles that are not cleared of the lane. I also found more confidence in unprotected left turns. It does perform better in intersections with fewer lanes. In those complicated intersections with 5-8 lanes, it does seem a bit timid.

The phantom braking events have been lessened dramatically. On 10/30 I took a 10 hour road trip and there was literally ONE phantom braking event on the highway, and AutoPilot/FSD was in use over 75% of the trip. Now there was this funny business where car wasn't passing vehicles. It kept getting right behind them and staying there 3-7mph slower than Max. I switched from Average/Normal to Mad Max, but then the car would not sit still in the right lane. I wanted to pass vehicles far ahead of me.

Near my house there has been construction on a minor artery intersection for 3 months. You literally have to drive on the wrong side of the road, and there are orange barrels everywhere. Yes FSD will beep at you to confirm you're torqueing the wheel in construction, but it never came close to hitting a barrel or disengaging. FSD is able to handle the offset nature of the intersection when proceeding straight, flawlessly. Admittedly it cannot handle the right turn properly, as it it pretty offset and odd, and you end up facing stopped traffic when you clear the last barrel, so it does behave inconsistently in that scenario.

Just last Saturday I was showing off FSD to a potential club member and I was telling him, "okay, this stretch of road has been problematic with a bunch of false slow downs for me." then the car didn't slow down at all. I'm talking about those areas where the road surface goes up and down by 3-10 feet, or there are curves with close trees or signs/billboards. It used the slam on the breaks for these.

This really impressed me:

In the same test drive as above, we were on a 3 lane road and needed to take a left turn. The car was in the right lane, which was ending into a right turn only lane. The center lane went straight, and the left lane was a short turn lane. Problem was a truck behind us, in the center lane, driving really fast so the car could not move left. I'm telling my passenger, "we'll probably miss this turn." But the car slowed down, and as soon as the truck passed by us, the car moved left two lanes. It then had to wait for two cars going the opposite direction before making the unprotected left. It was amazing! Now, granted the car's attitude had positioned itself a bit from right to left in the turn lane, but it didn't have the time/space to straighten up.

 

[jabloomf1230]

Sounds like your drive is different from ours, but I have been extremely impressed with 2022.20.19 (FSD 10.69.2.4)!

It is crushing the roundabouts and does fantastic pulling around vehicles that are not cleared of the lane. I also found more confidence in unprotected left turns. It does perform better in intersections with fewer lanes. In those complicated intersections with 5-8 lanes, it does seem a bit timid.

The phantom braking events have been lessened dramatically. On 10/30 I took a 10 hour road trip and there was literally ONE phantom braking event on the highway, and AutoPilot/FSD was in use over 75% of the trip. Now there was this funny business where car wasn't passing vehicles. It kept getting right behind them and staying there 3-7mph slower than Max. I switched from Average/Normal to Mad Max, but then the car would not sit still in the right lane. I wanted to pass vehicles far ahead of me.

Near my house there has been construction on a minor artery intersection for 3 months. You literally have to drive on the wrong side of the road, and there are orange barrels everywhere. Yes FSD will beep at you to confirm you're torqueing the wheel in construction, but it never came close to hitting a barrel or disengaging. FSD is able to handle the offset nature of the intersection when proceeding straight, flawlessly. Admittedly it cannot handle the right turn properly, as it it pretty offset and odd, and you end up facing stopped traffic when you clear the last barrel, so it does behave inconsistently in that scenario.

Just last Saturday I was showing off FSD to a potential club member and I was telling him, "okay, this stretch of road has been problematic with a bunch of false slow downs for me." then the car didn't slow down at all. I'm talking about those areas where the road surface goes up and down by 3-10 feet, or there are curves with close trees or signs/billboards. It used the slam on the breaks for these.

This really impressed me:

In the same test drive as above, we were on a 3 lane road and needed to take a left turn. The car was in the right lane, which was ending into a right turn only lane. The center lane went straight, and the left lane was a short turn lane. Problem was a truck behind us, in the center lane, driving really fast so the car could not move left. I'm telling my passenger, "we'll probably miss this turn." But the car slowed down, and as soon as the truck passed by us, the car moved left two lanes. It then had to wait for two cars going the opposite direction before making the unprotected left. It was amazing! Now, granted the car's attitude had positioned itself a bit from right to left in the turn lane, but it didn't have the time/space to straighten up.

Individual drivers, specific cars and other circumstances such as location, traffic levels, weather and lighting play such a big part in FSD beta behavior that I've given up trying to assess its performance based on one person's experience. In case you are wondering though, my opinion is that FSDb has gotten much better over the past few releases.

 

[Goose66]

It is crushing the roundabouts and does fantastic pulling around vehicles that are not cleared of the lane.

Mine still stops (or at least crawls to a timid roll) entering roundabouts, which is a no-no around here. Almost guaranteed to get you honked at.

The phantom braking events have been lessened dramatically. On 10/30 I took a 10 hour road trip and there was literally ONE phantom braking event on the highway, and AutoPilot/FSD was in use over 75% of the trip. Now there was this funny business where car wasn't passing vehicles. It kept getting right behind them and staying there 3-7mph slower than Max. I switched from Average/Normal to Mad Max, but then the car would not sit still in the right lane. I wanted to pass vehicles far ahead of me.

That sounds like Navigate on Autopilot, not FSD Beta. Up to this ooint that's been a different software stack.

In the same test drive as above, we were on a 3 lane road and needed to take a left turn. The car was in the right lane, which was ending into a right turn only lane. The center lane went straight, and the left lane was a short turn lane. Problem was a truck behind us, in the center lane, driving really fast so the car could not move left. I'm telling my passenger, "we'll probably miss this turn." But the car slowed down, and as soon as the truck passed by us, the car moved left two lanes. It then had to wait for two cars going the opposite direction before making the unprotected left. It was amazing! Now, granted the car's attitude had positioned itself a bit from right to left in the turn lane, but it didn't have the time/space to straighten up.

You must be in California (where all the validation test data comes from). Here in Atlanta, lane selection since 10.12 has been HORRENDOUS. It will turn on to a new street, make one or two completely unnecessary lanes changes, then start working its way back to the proper lane to make a turn (which it often misses). Then in intersections with multiple turning lanes, it now wants to move to the inside turning lane, make the turn, but move to the outside lane through the turn, which scares the other drivers around me. I didn't have a lot of problems with lane selection before, but since 10.12 the crazy lane changes has really kept me from testing so much because I almost immediately have to disengage as soon as I engage it (outside of on the highways, which is, like I said, NoA). I am really waiting for the lane selection problems to be worked out before I start back driving all my "around-town" jaunts on FSDb.

 

[chesterx]

Possibly, yes. If not now, then soon.

With AP using the FSD Beta stack now, we might finally all get to be on the main production branch, and the only difference between AP, EAP, and FSD cars is a toggle for whether or not you’ve bought and enabled those features.

I was about to ask that. So even non-FSD customers are getting the single stack with the 2022.40.5+ releases for their Autopilot ?

 

[EVNow]

"FSD branch is now up to date with the production branch" Does that mean going forward that FSD beta will be integrated into production firmware, or will we continue with the separate FSD and production branches?

They are just saying the FSDb branch is now using the latest production branch.

V11 is 2022.40.5.
Production is also 2022.40.x

Thats all they are saying.

I don't expect V11 FSDb to replace production NOA until FSD is available to everyone (which is the target for end of this year - so, really not that far off). Even then, it might only be by request only.

 

[Cheburashka]

Super annoying that you can't turn off lane changes on the freeway with v11. Hope they bring that back in a future release but probably not.

 

[GWord]

Super annoying that you can't turn off lane changes on the freeway with v11. Hope they bring that back in a future release but probably not.

I don’t think anyone here knows this yet though, right? We’re all just speculating that the behavior will mirror the current city streets setup. Hope for the best but expect the worst. I hope we are surprised.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Super annoying that you can't turn off lane changes on the freeway with v11.

Yeah unless you have some super secret information, no one knows this. In fact I would expect there to be no NOA changes otherwise no one will use NOA (automatic lane changes render NOA useless as we all know).

But I don’t know and we will find at some point when it goes to influencers.

 

[Cheburashka]

Yeah unless you have some super secret information, no one knows this. In fact I would expect there to be no NOA changes otherwise no one will use NOA (automatic lane changes render NOA useless as we all know).

I do know this since I have friends who are on it actually.

 

[powertoold]

Super annoying that you can't turn off lane changes on the freeway with v11. Hope they bring that back in a future release but probably not.

That would suck. It would make highway NoA more stressful for me (unless it works well, which I doubt lol). Currently, I disable auto-lane change, so I can relax and make my own decisions.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Mine still stops (or at least crawls to a timid roll) entering roundabouts, which is a no-no around here. Almost guaranteed to get you honked at.


That sounds like Navigate on Autopilot, not FSD Beta. Up to this ooint that's been a different software stack.


You must be in California (where all the validation test data comes from). Here in Atlanta, lane selection since 10.12 has been HORRENDOUS. It will turn on to a new street, make one or two completely unnecessary lanes changes, then start working its way back to the proper lane to make a turn (which it often misses). Then in intersections with multiple turning lanes, it now wants to move to the inside turning lane, make the turn, but move to the outside lane through the turn, which scares the other drivers around me. I didn't have a lot of problems with lane selection before, but since 10.12 the crazy lane changes has really kept me from testing so much because I almost immediately have to disengage as soon as I engage it (outside of on the highways, which is, like I said, NoA). I am really waiting for the lane selection problems to be worked out before I start back driving all my "around-town" jaunts on FSDb.

FSDB has been great for me in Atlanta. The only real issue I have in Atlanta, in the City, is GPS getting off, but I've had many successful drives downtown on 10.69.2.4. I had a drive from Glenlake Parkway in Sandy Springs to Atlanta Underground on Monday. Yes, 70% was on the Interstate (terrible construction), but it was amazing in both Sandy Springs and driving through downtown.

There were some questionable lane selections, obviously, but it wasn't bad enough to intervene.

 

[momo3605]

I do know this since I have friends who are on it actually.

They won’t have the NoA lane change settings any more?

 

[Cheburashka]

They won’t have the NoA lane change settings any more?

Correct, FSD just continues on the freeway like it's a city street.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Correct, FSD just continues on the freeway like it's a city street.

Since you have people who work at Tesla, this could just be early release stuff.

I still don’t think we have to worry about nonsense like that seeing the light of day.

No one would use NoA which defeats the entire purpose if they actually need miles driven (which presumably they actually don’t). No one would use it at all as we know.

I would just turn off destination entirely since obviously it will be terrible.

 

[GranularHail]

Super annoying that you can't turn off lane changes on the freeway with v11. Hope they bring that back in a future release but probably not.

If that's true, I'm really going to miss FSD.

It's amazing on single lane roads, but changes lanes at random literally every half mile on multi-lane roads in my car, so I'd have to just disable it completely if it is the same system on the highway.

 

[JulienW]

Since you have people who work at Tesla, this could just be early release stuff.

I still don’t think we have to worry about nonsense like that seeing the light of day.

No one would use NoA which defeats the entire purpose if they actually need miles driven (which presumably they actually don’t). No one would use it at all as we know.

I would just turn off destination entirely since obviously it will be terrible.

I speculate there will no longer be any NoA to use (unless you Turn off FSD Beta in the Menu) and it will probably be removed. NoA is an AP feature and not applicable to FSD Beta. So I bet the Customize NoA button will be completely removed when using Beta and Beta drives the same as it now does on any other street.

Again I like having options and hope I'm wrong but I don't see any reason for Tesla (at least by their reasoning) to keep any vestiges NoA features in FSD Beta. In all likelihood keeping NoA features would require more code modifications to FSD Beta.

 

[DarkForest]

If that's true, I'm really going to miss FSD.

It's amazing on single lane roads, but changes lanes at random literally every half mile on multi-lane roads in my car, so I'd have to just disable it completely if it is the same system on the highway.

Do you ever get a chance to see the messages saying why it’s changing lanes? FSD can be kind of odd like that for me, too, on certain roads, and the messages help me understand why.

Some of the messages include (not verbatim):

• Moving away from right most lane
• Moving away from orange cones
• Following route (this one annoys me a little; guessing it’s bad map data in these cases)

I’ve seen others, but those are the ones I remember.

 

[boonedocks]

Super annoying that you can't turn off lane changes on the freeway with v11. Hope they bring that back in a future release but probably not.

The ONLY thing that would make that okay is if the "edit trip" allows for taking a different route (which I believe is in the current non FSD Beta release). My car wants to exit off of I85 South on may way to work every trip no matter how I set up the settings in navigation. I use the the PeachPass / HOV lane so it is much faster than taking a detour because of traffic. I have to turn off lane auto lane change and back on almost every morning.

 

[joenathan]

I do know this since I have friends who are on it actually.

My uncle works at Nintendo!