FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[Mardak]

Pretty wonky right turn with 12.2.1 trying to decide 4-5(?) times if it should stay in the middle lane of a triple right turn. Have people noticed if 12.x generally prefers the left-most left or right-most right turn lanes? I suppose "average" training data would be biased towards those lanes as a random selection of turns will likely only have a single turn lane, so end-to-end might have been fighting against that to avoid being in the right-most lane that is forced in the wrong direction to 101 South.

Maybe it was just the wet roads confusing it or perhaps distracted by double rainbow?

 

[KLam]

Thanks for the details. It'll be interesting if it's pretty consistently jerky for that intersection and if it does that too for other intersections with parked cars. End-to-end training should result in learned human behaviors, so maybe there's something it's trying to mimic similar to how you say you slowly take the turn. But there's also the special training that Tesla applies such as full stops for taught behaviors, so there could be some mixing of the two behaviors resulting in jerk.

One potential taught behavior could be Tesla providing extra examples of creeping forwards before committing to a turn as that's no longer explicitly controlled where 11.x shows the blue creep wall visualization.

You may be right. The slow pull out maybe a continuous creep forward with out indication. I went back to the same route this afternoon. There is no jerk but a slightly longer hesitation on the T intersection.

I tried to change the Chill, Average and Assertive settings, but the center display always indicated Chill. I also changed the Auto Max speed setting. There seem to be no effect on the acceleration and deceleration profile. I can modulate the speed by using the accelerator to speed up the turns and the approaches to the stops. All in all the steering is quite smooth and the path on the tract neighborhood is quite good. Finally, I can get out of my neighborhood with FSD beta 12 to the main roads smoothly.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The change in detection happens before the defeat device message.

Not really sure what you are saying here.

Anyway, it should be quite straightforward to differentiate the two and for the most part Tesla does. To the extent they don’t they should fix it and get rid of false positives. Sure it is a job that is harder due to people using defeat devices, but it is not really an issue - just needs to work.

Anyway hopefully hands-on driving is rigorously enforced in v12. I don’t really car whether or not scroll wheel or stalk work (though really they should), but to the extent people’s hands are more on the wheel the better things are.

I still think they aren’t using the camera enough to detect hands on wheel (they cannot see hands or wheel when they are on the wheel, and of course can never see the wheel, but still they can detect it), but maybe they are to some extent. Anyway that seems like the way v12 can continue to drive down wheel torque notifications.

But anyway at the moment it seems like it works fine if you hold the wheel normally without even thinking about torquing. Just keep fine tuning it.

but the center display always indicated Chill.

That is because you are in Chill Mode (overall Pedals & Steering tab control mode). Friends don’t let friends drive in Chill Mode. Presumably has no effect on FSD, but no idea.

 

[Supcom]

Friends don’t let friends drive in Chill Mode.

Amen, brother!

 

[KLam]

That is because you are in Chill Mode (overall Pedals & Steering tab control mode). Friends don’t let friends drive in Chill Mode. Presumably has no effect on FSD, but no idea.

Ok. Then I don't know if the Acceleration modes Chill, Sport and Insane have anything to do with FSD beta acceleration and deceleration profile. Maybe I should go check it out!

 

[sleepydoc]

For those that have v12, is excessive lane changing still an issue?

 

[mgs333]

How are the autowipers? Today my v11.4.9 returned to not wiping even when the windshield is fully covered in rain.

 

[rlsd]

For those that have v12, is excessive lane changing still an issue?

I have not seen crazy lane changing.

 

[rlsd]

How are the autowipers? Today my v11.4.9 returned to not wiping even when the windshield is fully covered in rain.

Autowiping is good so far. I don't know how it works in heavy rain yet.

 

[aronth5]

Informative video from AI Driver

 

[rlsd]

Tonight drive:

1. FSD recognized the blinking light of the approaching car on the street it turned to. While waiting for the approaching car to pass, FSD made left turn right way when seeing the other car (about 100 feet from the intersection) made right turn signal.

2. FSD still took the same wrong early exit like last night.

3. FSD did not increase speed beyond the speed limit. User's speed settings are ignored.

4. Speed for turns or speed for intersection crossing was still slower then V11.

Everything else is very smooth.

 

[Mardak]

Interesting that it seems like the blue highlights and even creep wall are re-shown with 12.2.1? Did people see them in earlier 12.x? AI DRIVR thinks they don't really affect end-to-end control though.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Interesting that it seems like the blue highlights and even creep wall are re-shown with 12.2.1? Did people see them in earlier 12.x? AI DRIVR thinks they don't really affect end-to-end control though.

Just a guess on my part, but I think the visualization including the creep limit is probably a purposeful output of the E2E network.

I suppose it's possible that the visualization is kind of lifted intact from v11, but it would seem very odd if said visualization modules, as an output of the v11 perception, include calculation of creep limits. Because intuitively those seem like a product of the planning which is further downstream in v11.

 

[kabin]

I've seen a couple of different v12.2.1 drives with wiper issues.

X videos aren't very friendly for setting up viewing moments but Jillybean did a live broadcast tonight and for the most part v12.2.1 did well.

One sketchy moment (@29:00) with a white Model Y making a brain-dead driveway turn-in from the middle lane. FSD punted with a take over warning as the model Y's left rear bumper got a bit too close for comfort.

At 48:15 a left turn was borderline unsafe. FSD kept slowly moving further and further as oncoming cars approached and it just then went for it. It likely impeded the path of the opposing left turn vehicle.

https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1eaKbgLqXnvGX

 

[Mardak]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1760169716654780625

Presumably "These issues are addressed in 12.3" is responding to "Still some moments of confusion but nothing deal breaking."

The original message had an interesting 2nd video 0:20 in where navigation some reason wanted to go past then U-turn then make a right and end-to-end seems to have learned that people ignore that and directly make a left-turn. Seems like a lot of potential for 12.x to ignore bad map data and bad navigation.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Yeah I am sure 12.3 will address these issues.

Anyway I just want some ASS. Looks promising according to the Costco parking lot video. And I am sure the EAP folks with HW2.5 want it too, so looking forward to seeing the stack running on that.

 

[Acisplat]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1760169716654780625

Presumably "These issues are addressed in 12.3" is responding to "Still some moments of confusion but nothing deal breaking."

The original message had an interesting 2nd video 0:20 in where navigation some reason wanted to go past then U-turn then make a right and end-to-end seems to have learned that people ignore that and directly make a left-turn. Seems like a lot of potential for 12.x to ignore bad map data and bad navigation.

So, bets on when the majority of 11.4.9 will get FSD V12 at this rate?

 

[jeewee3000]

So, bets on when the majority of 11.4.9 will get FSD V12 at this rate?

It is still mostly in California if I understand correctly.

I'd say rest of the US will take weeks. Or they have to wait for 12.3.

 

[powertoold]

Has anyone seen any 12.2.1 videos of it doing something dangerous?

 

[JulienW]

So, bets on when the majority of 11.4.9 will get FSD V12 at this rate?

Probably will take a 12.4 since Elon says 12.3 is already needed and seems to be imminent or close release. Being a whole new system approach and now going to MANY times more cars means the odds of finding bugs and problems go up exponentially. Let's hope for the best case (2 to 4 weeks) but we still should be prepared for the worst. While it is all wild cards now if we see most having before the end of March that will be great.

Just glad to see progress and starting the actual process of a rollout.