FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[stopcrazypp]

I've never heard that before. Are you saying the car actively changes seat belt tension to shake the driver?

From a quick Google:
"A camera mounted in the Mercedes video gauge cluster behind the steering wheel pays attention to eye movement and will notice if you nod off. In that case, the seat belt will vibrate and tug at you, bells will go off, and lights will flash. In other words, catnaps are a no-no."

Level 3 And Me: Testing the Autonomous Driving Mercedes-Benz

I didn’t die, and I’m here to write about it.

beverlyhillscourier.com

"But then red lights started flashing in the cabin. The car's beeping got louder and pertinacious. I felt the seat belt yank on my shirt. It was time for the "fallback ready user" -- aka me -- to take over the helm"

What it's like to experience Mercedes-Benz's Drive Pilot automated system

Mercedes-Benz is the first automaker to bring an SAE Level 3 system to the U.S. market.

www.google.com

 

[FSDtester#1]

Yes, some cars actually physically pull on the seat belt to get the attention of the driver. Others vibrate the seat bottom and/or pulse/stab the brakes. (Tesla just flashes the screen and beeps loudly at the driver.)

Wow, you are the man. I finally learned something from this thread other than how awful Tesla, FSD, and Elon are... Thanks Mike!

By the way, How do you turn on the vibration setting? Asking for a friend.

 

[lzolman]

Wow, you are the man. I finally learned something from this thread other than how awful Tesla, FSD, and Elon are... Thanks Mike!

By the way, How do you turn on the vibration setting? Asking for a friend.

You know, if Bat Hands are an erogenous zone, then in a Tesla (at least mine) you'd just have to straddle one of the lines to get a nice buzz...

 

[LSDTester#1]

…. Wait, what is the tooic here? V12? ….

Inline V6

 

[gottagofast]

I’m not using FSD anymore until I get 4.2, everyone join me

 

[FSDtester#1]

I’m not using FSD anymore until I get 4.2, everyone join me

I would like to but Fsd is engaged right now and without it I wouldn't be able to use Tmc while driving.

/s

 

[JulienW]

I’m not using FSD anymore until I get 4.2, everyone join me

First why and B nota for me?

 

[JulienW]

I’m not using FSD anymore until I get 4.2, everyone join me

WAIT, I thought your guaranteed we would get 12.4.2 this week. So what is the deal. Are we getting 12.4.2 this week or not? Stop messing with us since we are depending on your ability to have updates delivered as per your word.

 

[KLam]

Since we've done all the calculations, and tested with multiple confirmations, the numbers I gave are correct.

Do the following to test:

1) Drive manually on the freeway, set the profile to Chill (which will be 5% over the limit), and drive just under the speed limit
2) You'll see the limit shown as 65MPH (assuming that's the limit it saw on the freeway), and the FSD limit as 68MPH (in grey), which is 5% over
3) Engage FSD - you'll be set to 68MPH

Now - disengage FSD, and set the profile to Average - repeat and you'll see the limit is 72MPH in grey, etc.

I got similar laugh emoji from Alan earlier when I responded to rlsd's message on FSDS auto set Max speed different from the posted Speed limit. I was wondering why too. Then I saw your message. So, I went out two hours ago to test on 110 N and 91E. My settings are Chill and zero offset. Note the "zero" offset setting.

The "grey" Max speed always follows the Speed Limit posted! Unless I speed up pass the Speed limit, then the "grey" max speed will follow the manual set speed.

I always set with "zero" offset to test the basic default implementation, because I don't want to do more calculation and knowing programmers always make mistakes when given them more variables.

The reason I think Tesla have recorded my speed preference on certain roads was when I noticed on my last drive to SF during my interchange from I-5 N to 152 W. Coming off the exit from I-5 N to 152W I was at a significant slow speed (150 degree loop and below 50mph) and merge to 152W which has a Speed limit of 65 mph. My car speed have yet to accelerate up close to 65 mph, the Max speed jumped to 68 mph, my usual manual setting!

I am not that surprised as my MS has the capability to record my suspension height settings on various locations. There are a lot of shopping area entrances with dips and steep slopes. If I don't slow down to set max suspension height, the MS will scratch its bottom or bump my front. That's another reason I don't let FSDS directly turn into or exit a shopping area or parking area.

 

[Dewg]

I got similar laugh emoji from Alan earlier when I responded to rlsd's message on FSDS auto set Max speed different from the posted Speed limit. I was wondering why too. Then I saw your message. So, I went out two hours ago to test on 110 N and 91E. My settings are Chill and zero offset. Note the "zero" offset setting.

The "grey" Max speed always follows the Speed Limit posted! Unless I speed up pass the Speed limit, then the "grey" max speed will follow the manual set speed.

I always set with "zero" offset to test the basic default implementation, because I don't want to do more calculation and knowing programmers always make mistakes when given them more variables.

The reason I think Tesla have recorded my speed preference on certain roads was when I noticed on my last drive to SF during my interchange from I-5 N to 152 W. Coming off the exit from I-5 N to 152W I was at a significant slow speed (150 degree loop and below 50mph) and merge to 152W which has a Speed limit of 65 mph. My car speed have yet to accelerate up close to 65 mph, the Max speed jumped to 68 mph, my usual manual setting!

I am not that surprised as my MS has the capability to record my suspension height settings on various locations. There are a lot of shopping area entrances with dips and steep slopes. If I don't slow down to set max suspension height, the MS will scratch its bottom or bump my front. That's another reason I don't let FSDS directly turn into or exit a shopping area or parking area.

This is exactly what I would expect if you've set the parameters yourself. If you have ASSO enabled is where the system will handle it for you with the offsets we calculated. No surprise at all the speed jumps up if someone has manual offsets set with a percentage or set amount. Perhaps some people have forgotten they've set their own offsets and are surprised when the max speed goes over the speed limit.

To be clear - if you want the car to do the speed limit (on freeway v11 stack), go into your Autopilot settings and disable ASSO, then set your offset to +0.

 

[lzolman]

I’m not using FSD anymore until I get 4.2, everyone join me

Just get folks to try to calibrate their cameras, and you'll have lots of company.

 

[PACEMD]

Yes, some cars actually physically pull on the seat belt to get the attention of the driver.

So does that explain this message? All seems right. Well, I haven't yet tried crashing into a deer at 80 mph. .

 

[MP3Mike]

So does that explain this message? Never have I seen such a seatbelt amuck, all seems right. Well, I haven't yet tried crashing into a deer at 80 mph. .

No, Tesla doesn't do anything but audio and visual alerts.

 

[gottagofast]

Does the car use the interior camera to determine whether to connect your phone instead of the seat weight sensor now? Because my phone has been connecting 100% everytime for a few weeks now

 

[PACEMD]

No, Tesla doesn't do anything but audio and visual alerts.

Right, that wasn't a real question. What I meant was........what in the farmer's mother does this mean?

 

[PACEMD]

Does the car use the interior camera to determine whether to connect your phone instead of the seat weight sensor now? Because my phone has been connecting 100% everytime for a few weeks now

Are you suggesting I look too fat for the seatbelts to hold?

 

[gottagofast]

Are you suggesting I look too fat for the seatbelts to hold?

The seat belts determine the phone connection?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Right, that wasn't a real question. What I meant was........what in the farmer's mother does this mean?

Did you spill anything on your seat recently? Means the seat sensor or something else involved in the restraint system is messed up (there may be specifics of the error message in the service menu that narrow it down).

If the sensor dries out it might go away depending on how sticky a substance you spilled. Or the sensor is broken. Or it is something else.

When I had this it was because my very very bad very small dog tinkled on the passenger seat and I didn’t notice right away. Very sad. Need to go through the service process of removing the seat from the car and replacing the bottom seat cover (and clean the foam), at some point. It looks pretty straightforward and bonus is the worn seat bottom cover can be swapped out. Warning went away once it dried out though (wasn’t a lot of pee, just the perfect amount). (The actual perfect amount of dog pee is zero dog pee of course.)

 

[gottagofast]

They def changed something because my phone connected 60% of the time now it’s 100%

 

[sleepydoc]

From the SAE document: (https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/54/02/2d5919914cfe9549e79721b12e66/j3016-202104.pdf)

Level 3: "...sustained...performance...under routine-normal operation with the expectation that the fallback+0ready user is receptive to ADS-issued requests to intervene...and will respond appropriately"

The fallback-ready user need not supervise a L3 ADS while it is engage but is expected to be prepared to either resume [driving] within the system issues a request to intervene or to perform the fallback and achieve a minimal risk condition"

A user is also expected to be receptive to evident system failures in vehicle systems that do not necessarily trigger a request to intervene, such as a broken body or suspension component.

In the event of a system failure in a Level 3 ADS...the ADS will issue a request to intervene within sufficient time for the fallback-ready user (whether in-vehicle or remote) to respond appropriately.

Although automated fallback performance is not expected of Level 3 ADS features, a Level 3 feature may be capable of performing the DDT fallback and achieving a minimal risk condition under certain, limited conditions.

(some paraphrasing done for brevity)

Essentially they require the fallback user be available to take over "within sufficient time to respond appropriately" but make no comment as to what that time frame is. They also talk about the user being 'receptive to evident system failures" that the system may not recognize yet include remote control as an acceptable means of fallback support meaning the fallback user would have no way of knowing about such system failures.

Basically, the '10 seconds' everyone keeps citing here is a completely made up number and the SAE document itself is a bit contradictory as to what the requirements are. Of note, there is no mention of driver monitoring or of what kinds of activities may or may not be appropriate.