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FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
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- #fixphantombraking autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd hard and late braking fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd tailgating in city streets
powertoold
Active Member
Not sure if anyone's posted this, but V12 improvements don't seem good enough to get to generalized robotaxis (like whole city / state L4):
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Has to be some of the least surprising news I have ever heard.
Can’t imagine anyone is surprised.
And no reason to think this situation will ever change for this hardware. Could be v20 and would not be close.
DanCar
Active Member
What is surprising to me is the number of tweets thinking V12 will be something miraculous.
Elon Musk did say that v12 would no longer be Beta, implying some significant improvement. But then of course it's Elon Musk, the ever optimist.
powertoold
Active Member
My top V12 desired "fixes" are:
1) No more hesitation after a right turn
2) No jerkiness while doing unprotected rights
3) No more lunging towards lead cars
4) Less hesitation whenever there's an out of the ordinary situation (lol)
1) No more hesitation after a right turn
2) No jerkiness while doing unprotected rights
3) No more lunging towards lead cars
4) Less hesitation whenever there's an out of the ordinary situation (lol)
OK, communication confusion I think, so sorry for my part. I thought you were saying that FSD "does not" slam on the brakes while in the process of overtaking a truck, and I'm saying "it does" based on my experiences lately.
It would be statistically freaky if every 18-wheeler waited until I was precisely half-way through going by him and then swerved toward me at that exact moment. Yet the brakes got slammed only when I was abreast of these trucks. And I actually got no other phantom braking events on that entire trip except for all those next to trucks.
OK. Your experience still doesn't match mine. You don't need to prove it.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
My number 1 (and I think this is more a HW4 problem than a HW3 problem) is to stop trying to pull out into traffic when cars are coming, and to stop pulling out aggressively from blind corners.
I don’t have that many pairs of clean underwear left.
Agree completely. I have a HW4 car and both problems you list are now worse than my old HW3 car but they were still a problem with HW3. Just worse now. It's the exception now when I have a zero disengagement drive.
powertoold
Active Member
I wonder how many of the employee "reviews" are legit though
I'm not sure how Teslascope verifies their sources
Anything in particular that led you to that? The improvement or regression rates from 12.1 feedback?
FSD Beta 10.x had over a dozen releases over a year while 11.x had a handful over a similar time-frame. For 12.x rewrite to already maintain core driving capability and improve some other aspects of a system with over 3 years of public development and testing seems to be quite the accomplishment already. We'll have to see if the new architecture actually results in a faster rate of progress as it seems to be very much dependent on Tesla's ability to continuously train the neural networks even more than before.
powertoold
Active Member
Well, if those reviews and impression percentages are legit, they seem too low to be vastly better than 11.4.9, and I think fsd will have to be vastly better than 11.4.9 to deploy as robotaxis without micromanagement and excessive liability.
Granted, Tesla may still deploy robotaxis by scaling back V12 training data to a smaller region, like rather than data from USA-wide, they can concentrate all the training to CA and use all billion parameters for a CA-only robotaxis service for example.
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Don’t think that is how this works. Likely off by an order of magnitude or two! No one knows.
beachmiles
Member
My top V12 desired "fixes" are:
1) Drive WAY more chill especially while FSD is in beta and chill mode is selected. Limit lane changes should be the default for instance. FSD should not be programmed to have the Dunning Kruger syndrome
2) Start to decelerate WAY earlier for stopping/slowing situations instead of waiting till the last second and using hard friction brakes. (See desired fix #1)
3) Phantom braking needs to end especially with cars right behind you. (See desired fix #1)
4) Stop swerving in large right lanes with unmarked parking lanes / unmarked right turn lanes / unmarked biking lanes and instead hug the left side of large right lanes. (See desired fix #1)
5) Stop tailgating cars in city streets and give larger following distances especially in chill mode. (See desired fix #1)
6) When getting in a dedicated left turn lane don't only drive halfway into the turn lane and hog 2 lanes. Instead just fully get in the left turn lane ASAP. The car needs to signal way earlier for turning situations as well.
1) Drive WAY more chill especially while FSD is in beta and chill mode is selected. Limit lane changes should be the default for instance. FSD should not be programmed to have the Dunning Kruger syndrome
2) Start to decelerate WAY earlier for stopping/slowing situations instead of waiting till the last second and using hard friction brakes. (See desired fix #1)
3) Phantom braking needs to end especially with cars right behind you. (See desired fix #1)
4) Stop swerving in large right lanes with unmarked parking lanes / unmarked right turn lanes / unmarked biking lanes and instead hug the left side of large right lanes. (See desired fix #1)
5) Stop tailgating cars in city streets and give larger following distances especially in chill mode. (See desired fix #1)
6) When getting in a dedicated left turn lane don't only drive halfway into the turn lane and hog 2 lanes. Instead just fully get in the left turn lane ASAP. The car needs to signal way earlier for turning situations as well.
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While I'm ot expecting v12 to be an immediate miracle, I'm hopeful and enthusiastic to see how it works on my familiar routes.
My top two categories of v11 problems are both associated with lane selection:
It would be a shame if these, the most common reasons for intervention and frustration (and embarrassment in front of other drivers) are still with us in v12. Hopefully not, but my optimism is guarded because they don't seem to be really part of the perception and control tasks, they seem more like problems with the map / navigation system.
Anyway it should be a lot of fun two weeks fromnow er, whatever time that it's two weeks from...
My top two categories of v11 problems are both associated with lane selection:
- The often-mentioned tendency to interpret a turn lane as a new driving lane, and then wanting to move into it. I still haven't figured out why, even if it were correct about the identification of a new driving lane, it's so anxious to change into it. I have a place where there really is a new third lane that opens up on the right. FsD reliably wants to move into it, (lnot helpful because I need to turn left about a mile on.
- The entirely perverse desire to want to move out of the lane we need to be in, for a turn that's upcoming in a half mile or so. It fights very hard to accomplish this then, then finally stops fighting when the lady says the turn is coming in 1000 ft. I've said before that this really, really feels like a heuristic software bug. As in there's a subroutine telling it to move into the correct lane well ahead of time - but to accomplish that it thinks it needs to be in the wrong lane first.
It would be a shame if these, the most common reasons for intervention and frustration (and embarrassment in front of other drivers) are still with us in v12. Hopefully not, but my optimism is guarded because they don't seem to be really part of the perception and control tasks, they seem more like problems with the map / navigation system.
Anyway it should be a lot of fun two weeks from
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