FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[Daniel in SD]

Carefully?

Find the "best drivers" to learn from? The ones who have decent tyres.

If you train FSD on snow tires it will fly off the road with all seasons. You need to train it in a PNW ice storm running the stock Pilot Sports.

 

[GSP]

Definitely funny to think about driving in a PNW ice storm on stock Pilot Sports.

 

[MarcG]

The bottleneck for FSD in bad weather isn't the grip of the tires. It's the problem of proper perception given the dirty camera's because of rain/mud/snow. Especially the rear camera. In my case that camera is blind 50% of the time. (completely blurred visison due to rain)

Not sure how much that rear bumper camera is used while driving though. It’s very wide angle and as you mentioned, gets dirty quite easily. It’s definitely used for parking, but while moving forward I think FSD relies on the fender cameras to analyze vehicles passing the ego from the left and the right. Unclear how the rear bumper camera adds data to the ego’s decisions.

 

[jeewee3000]

Not sure how much that rear bumper camera is used while driving though. It’s very wide angle and as you mentioned, gets dirty quite easily. It’s definitely used for parking, but while moving forward I think FSD relies on the fender cameras to analyze vehicles passing the ego from the left and the right. Unclear how the rear bumper camera adds data to the ego’s decisions.

It doesn't at the moment but for a truly autonomous vehicle it totally should.

Whenever one needs to brake you should check if there is nobody close behind you. (Yes, they are at fault if they do, but a defensive driver will not brake hard if someone is tailing him closely, but first "light the brakelights" a few times, before easing into braking).

 

[joelliot]

It doesn't at the moment but for a truly autonomous vehicle it totally should.

Whenever one needs to brake you should check if there is nobody close behind you. (Yes, they are at fault if they do, but a defensive driver will not brake hard if someone is tailing him closely, but first "light the brakelights" a few times, before easing into braking).

It’s hard for me to be sure because FSD behavior is not consistent, however, moving out of passing lane only seems to happen for me when FSD detects a vehicle close behind. That tends to stop working when rain is covering the rear camera. At least that is how it seems to work for me.

 

[sleepydoc]

The bottleneck for FSD in bad weather isn't the grip of the tires. It's the problem of proper perception given the dirty camera's because of rain/mud/snow. Especially the rear camera. In my case that camera is blind 50% of the time. (completely blurred visison due to rain)

actually it's more fundamental than that - FSD needs to have some perception of how slippery the road is or is likely to be and be able to adjust speed, stopping distance, driving style, etc. accordingly.

honestly, I'd rather they focus on getting things right in good weather first. If I can't trust FSD to stay in the right lane when there's perfect visibility, how's it going to manage poor weather?

 

[TK211X]

It’s interesting to see how pure Ai will perform. Imagine a stray mark or the clarity of the glass for the camera totally changing the decision making and output of the Ai in an otherwise sterile scenario.

 

[DanCar]

If you train FSD on snow tires it will fly off the road with all seasons. You need to train it in a PNW ice storm running the stock Pilot Sports.

Would be easier to program FSD if there was a camera covering the tires to know:

1. what kind of tire they are
2. how well they are sticking to current road conditions
3. what is currently covering the road near the tire.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Would be easier to program FSD if there was a camera covering the tires to know:

1. what kind of tire they are
2. how well they are sticking to current road conditions
3. what is currently covering the road near the tire.

In some of the worst conditions it would be hard for even a human to identify that from an image.

I would think the traction control system could easily determine when the surface is becoming questionable and adjust the driving profile appropriately. (Obviously detecting the transition ASAP would be tricky though, and patches of ice would be very problematic.)

Unfortunately it seems fairly clear (based only empirically on car behavior, specifically charging towards stopped traffic a few hundred yards ahead) that adjusting following distance appropriately in such circumstances is well outside the capabilities of the current hardware.

 

[Silicon Desert]

Not sure how much that rear bumper camera is used while driving though. It’s very wide angle and as you mentioned, gets dirty quite easily. It’s definitely used for parking, but while moving forward I think FSD relies on the fender cameras to analyze vehicles passing the ego from the left and the right. Unclear how the rear bumper camera adds data to the ego’s decisions.

There is a rear bumper camera now? Or are you talking about the camera above the bumper on the door panel?

 

[EVNow]

You need to train it in a PNW ice storm running the stock Pilot Sports.

In the PNW we don't drive in snow. Just a little dusting and schools were cancelled yesterday.

 

[Todd Burch]

I do wish "Chill" increased the follow distance. FSD sometimes follows too close for me to feel comfortable that I could override FSD quickly enough if needed. We used to be able to control the follow distance with the right scroll wheel, now it only selects Chill, normal, or aggressive.

GSP

Chill *does* increase the follow distance.

 

[drtimhill]

Not sure how much that rear bumper camera is used while driving though. It’s very wide angle and as you mentioned, gets dirty quite easily. It’s definitely used for parking, but while moving forward I think FSD relies on the fender cameras to analyze vehicles passing the ego from the left and the right. Unclear how the rear bumper camera adds data to the ego’s decisions.

If's used (e.g) when making braking decisions in an emergency; the car uses different brake profiles depending on the presence of a following car. Also used to decide on lane changes when in the RH lane on the freeway. So yes, it's def used by the car.

 

[sleepydoc]

I would think the traction control system could easily determine when the surface is becoming questionable and adjust the driving profile appropriately.

I’ve had FSD slide through an intersection with the antilock brakes chattering away and not blink an eye. Or a transistor. (I intentionally let it try on some slippery roads where there was no traffic and no danger of getting in an accident.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I’ve had FSD slide through an intersection with the antilock brakes chattering away and not blink an eye. Or a transistor. (I intentionally let it try on some slippery roads where there was no traffic and no danger of getting in an accident.

No surprises there.

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1748190199337893908

 

[MarcG]

Also used to decide on lane changes when in the RH lane on the freeway.

Why would it use the rear camera, which is super wide angle and can’t “see” far at all, versus the side fender camera that can look further back?

 

[UkNorthampton]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1748190199337893908

Stockport, Manchester, UK - odd

 

[drtimhill]

Why would it use the rear camera, which is super wide angle and can’t “see” far at all, versus the side fender camera that can look further back?

Because it doesnt use cameras individually .. the NN is fed data from ALL the cameras and it uses all these to construct the overall 3D model of its surroundings. That is then used to decide if a car is approaching from the rear and trigger a lane change out of the left lane.

 

[aronth5]

Because it doesnt use cameras individually .. the NN is fed data from ALL the cameras and it uses all these to construct the overall 3D model of its surroundings. That is then used to decide if a car is approaching from the rear and trigger a lane change out of the left lane.

While this is old feedback when I first started testing FSD Tesla Support confirmed my rear camera was not calibrated at all yet FSD still ran. They seemed as surprised as I was. My experience is when other cameras aren't working, for example blinded by the sun or ice FSD disengages, Why didn't the same happen when the rear camera was working? Since it's been a couple of years since this happened the behavior may be different now.