Probably you can thank the people who used cheater devices vis the volume button.Sadly it only takes a few idiots ro ruin something for the majority.
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FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
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- #fixphantombraking autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd hard and late braking fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd tailgating in city streets
2023.44.30.20 12.2.2
FSD 12 is here! Downloaded and instaleld this morning. As one of only 50 so far in TeslaFi, I figure I should report my first drive. Bottom line: much improved, not perfect.
My 10 mile test loop had several spots where 11.4.9 failed, so these were my main comparison points. Include residential, rural, and freeway.
Good news first, the improvements:
Stop sign at the bottom of a hill, it handled very smoothly. Previous versions braked early and hard.
Twisty road, for the first time ever it never crossed the yellow center line, and hit no Botts Dots. It slowed before entering the curves.
Prior versions would always veer into a particular bus stop and parking lane. 12 did not, a positive improvement.
Handled a short on-ramp to freeway merge well, where prior version often failed to merge and took the off ramp instead.
Freeway driving was like 11.4.9, much smoother than AutoPilot.
Map showed a stop sign which was removed months ago, but FSD12 did not stop. 11.4.9 did stop for the phantom sign.
Oh, and no dry wipes, same as 11.4.9 for me.
On the Not Perfect list:
One old problem I could not check is a stop sign which says “Opposing traffic does not stop”, a three way stop at a four way intersection. On this drive, there was no traffic comming the other way. Prior versions would go even when oppsing cars turned left into our path.
On one short section at a light, the marking between the two lanes has faded, and FSD stayed in the center, blocking the right turn lane. Map data should show two lanes, but does not.
Stopping at stop signs for too long. Once it starts to creep, it spends too long when there is nothing there.
It did one steering jerk while turning left onto a freeway on-ramp.
Still must be set to Minimal Lane Changes on each drive. I think this setting should default to the setting in the settings menu.
FSD 12 is here! Downloaded and instaleld this morning. As one of only 50 so far in TeslaFi, I figure I should report my first drive. Bottom line: much improved, not perfect.
My 10 mile test loop had several spots where 11.4.9 failed, so these were my main comparison points. Include residential, rural, and freeway.
Good news first, the improvements:
Stop sign at the bottom of a hill, it handled very smoothly. Previous versions braked early and hard.
Twisty road, for the first time ever it never crossed the yellow center line, and hit no Botts Dots. It slowed before entering the curves.
Prior versions would always veer into a particular bus stop and parking lane. 12 did not, a positive improvement.
Handled a short on-ramp to freeway merge well, where prior version often failed to merge and took the off ramp instead.
Freeway driving was like 11.4.9, much smoother than AutoPilot.
Map showed a stop sign which was removed months ago, but FSD12 did not stop. 11.4.9 did stop for the phantom sign.
Oh, and no dry wipes, same as 11.4.9 for me.
On the Not Perfect list:
One old problem I could not check is a stop sign which says “Opposing traffic does not stop”, a three way stop at a four way intersection. On this drive, there was no traffic comming the other way. Prior versions would go even when oppsing cars turned left into our path.
On one short section at a light, the marking between the two lanes has faded, and FSD stayed in the center, blocking the right turn lane. Map data should show two lanes, but does not.
Stopping at stop signs for too long. Once it starts to creep, it spends too long when there is nothing there.
It did one steering jerk while turning left onto a freeway on-ramp.
Still must be set to Minimal Lane Changes on each drive. I think this setting should default to the setting in the settings menu.
PianoAl
Active Member
I took a short trip to lunch in the rain. The wipers are OK. V22 has a good behavior: it changed to designated turn lane very early. After the car entered the restaurant parking lot, it made a left turn. I disengaged. Probably it wanted to park in an empty parking space or wanted to make an early left turn. The actual left turn lane was about 70 ft from the point it started the left turn. I didn't expect this.
On the way back to my work place, the car correctly entered the gate to the parking lot (it failed this morning).
On the way back to my work place, the car correctly entered the gate to the parking lot (it failed this morning).
Great weather in Texas today. Perfect for testing new self driving software. Such a shame it's not coming this way yet.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
It would definitely have a different signature. Similar but very very different I guess you could say. There would definitely be ways to discriminate. The false positives they allegedly still have should be able to be resolved, but the fact that people who use the one hand technique almost never get told they have a defeat device means the signatures are different.
I think anything that enforces hands actually on the wheel is good. Could make argument scroll wheels should qualify but if the torque detection is working correctly it should be a non issue. Tesla should definitely make it work correctly though.
Well hopefully it is better than v11 which steers wide and goes outside the lines when you gun it during a turn.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
To be clear, I'm talking about using cabin camera as a replacement for steering wheel detection for nag purposes. The motivation for the camera itself instead is likely to prepare for potential robotaxi use (must have a way to monitor passengers), which is why it ended up as a cabin camera and not a driver camera. It was released in 2019, well ahead of any EU regulation (which didn't kick in until 2022 for new types and 2024 for all new vehicles).
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The change in detection happens before the defeat device message. The theory is now it looks for variations, so unless you had some variations naturally, it will nag you about it. The defeat device message may pop up at a later stage than that.
Although I haven't triggered the message before, apparently plenty have:
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Is that setting available while you're driving on secondary roads or only on highways? Is it observed on secondary roads?
My friend is a subscriber on 30.8 and is freaking out because he has service scheduled to replace a piece of glass but the invoice shows “ensure recall update is installed” so he thinks they’re going to push him to 2024.XX and mess it up for him.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Perhaps my post was unclear- let me try and do better below:
The camera was installed since 2017 in Model 3 for robotaxi monitoring- we explicitly were told that by Tesla.
THEN, the following year, PRIOR to Tesla ever activating the cabin camera for driver monitoring, the EU announced they'd be requiring driver monitoring.
EU lists 11 car safety systems to become mandatory from 2021
Autonomous braking and automatic speed limit assistance among compulsory features on all new vehicles
theweek.com
That's from 2018, mentioning the EU having listed driver monitoring as a "coming soon mandatory" thing.
In response to that Tesla began optionally activating the camera to collect data for future software (Teslas own words)- and then later still, but prior to the EU requirement taking effect, rolled out actual driver monitoring using the interior camera.
Thus it seems pretty clear the EU requirement was WHY they did that with something they never originally intended to use for that purpose.
I find it a valuable setting on All roads equally. A second the vote that this should be a Permanent driver setting that stays in the preferred on position. That one is frustrating.
Yeah, there's definitely bias in the population who would use TeslaFi too, so good to be careful about what types of analysis are reasonable. Of the remaining vehicles on 2023.44.30.8, there's about 2740 in the US and of those 580 are in California for 21%, and on 2023.44.30.14 600 California / 2810 US also 21%. So far, these are the only 2 versions on the service updating to 2023.44.30.20 with 12.2.1, and all 48 vehicles so far are in US with all but one from California for 98%. And the odd one in Nevada might have actually normally been in California but temporarily traveling next door when updating.
It'll be interesting to see if Tesla continues this staggered rollout for later 12.x of 1) limited California 2) wider California & limited other states 3) presumably wider for all.
Thanks for the details. It'll be interesting if it's pretty consistently jerky for that intersection and if it does that too for other intersections with parked cars. End-to-end training should result in learned human behaviors, so maybe there's something it's trying to mimic similar to how you say you slowly take the turn. But there's also the special training that Tesla applies such as full stops for taught behaviors, so there could be some mixing of the two behaviors resulting in jerk.
One potential taught behavior could be Tesla providing extra examples of creeping forwards before committing to a turn as that's no longer explicitly controlled where 11.x shows the blue creep wall visualization.
Got it last night, much improved over v11. Had a real smooth ride with the auto speed in the neighborhood over speed bumps and railroad tracks. I feel more confident in v12.
As do I with V11. It's on my FSD start checklist.
I'm trying to figure out if V11 is handling highway driving for V12. If that setting is only accessible on highways, or if it only applies on highways, then it would lend further credence to that theory. If secondary road driving with V12 is abiding by that setting, then either it's a setting apart from the control system or V12 has incorporated that setting into the neural network behavior.
Has anyone seen V12 show messages explaining lane changes that aren't required to stay on route? Does it show any messages?
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Secondarys too. I just did it with the car in Park in the garage, FSD not engaged. Right thumb wheel, pushed right or left changes the agression setting and brings up a card on the screen which includes the Minimal button. Sadly, there seems to be no voice command for it.
When I remember to, I will set it to minimum lane changes while still on city streets. Otherwise, as soon as we get onto the freeway, it starts to lane-change to the left and I have to stop it and then set to minimum.
On my second drive today it was raining, but auto-wipe did not start right away. I tolerated it for a while and they did start, but far later than they should.
Just making sure, this wasn't an interstate? I believe 101 switches between controlled-access freeway and highway with traffic lights and other at-grade crossings. If you toggle the new 12.x "Automatic Set Speed Offset" under Autopilot settings, it might be easier to tell which FSD Beta is active if it helps avoid some not-smooth/un-human-like oddness when it switches back to 11.x.
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