FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[swedge]

Probably some type of Navigation error. Did you notice the "Changing Lanes to Follow Route" message on the screen? I've had mine do this before on 11.4.9.

Yes on that alert. I had to have my wife watch for it because I was busy stopping the lane change.

Your observation of this on 11.4.9 is consistent with the idea that 12.2.1 used the 11.4.9 freeway code. How do we know they kept that old code?

On freeways, 12.2.1 felt the same to me as 11.4.9, but it did seem to handle one freeway onramp issue better. 11.4.9 often failed to merge into the freeway lane before the onramp lane became an off-ramp lane and ego got confused and swerved and/or exited. 12.2.1, on a couple test runs managed the merge correctly and smoothly.

 

[powertoold]

12.3 drives very very well,

But you guys are right too, driverless still seems a long long way to go, especially for HW3

V12 is amazing ADAS, but...

 

[spacecoin]

12.3 drives very very well,

But you guys are right too, driverless still seems a long long way to go, especially for HW3

V12 is amazing ADAS, but...

Think never. This system is not designed to be driverless.

 

[FSDtester#1]

12.3 drives very very well,

But you guys are right too, driverless still seems a long long way to go, especially for HW3

V12 is amazing ADAS, but...

Your feedback has been great. All I am looking for right now is steady improvement.
Something we haven't seen in about a year. Hopefully the days of 2 steps forward and 1 step back are in the rear view mirror, unless you own a Cybertruck...!

(The Cybertruck rear view mirror is worthless when cover is closed)

These big drops on teslafi of v11 on various branches makes me very skeptical about any V12 wide release soon, especially outside CA

 

[rlsd]

Think never. This system is not designed to be driverless.

I don't want my car to drive without me in it.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

FACT: FSD Beta V11/12 is a L2 system 100% of the time it is engaged[full stop]. NEVER is it L3 of higher at any time it is used. Here is official SAE info on what L2 does and it is CLEARLY spelled out on what the driver is responsible for.

Geez, next time I'll be sure to put a HUGE /S

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Wrong, you must be new to fsdb. Tesla was clear with all new testers, that we are responsible, not the car. Your post is very irresponsible and can lead to people being complacent, which could cause accidents, injuries or worse. "Idiots", should not have a driver's license. Here is the email Tesla sent us almost 3 years ago:

Care to explain why you are jumping all over me but not correcting everyone else who uses the term "driving" when describing what the car is doing when FSDb is engaged?

 

[SidetrackedSue]

I don't want my car to drive without me in it.

I actually have a use-case for that and kind-of wondered if I bought FSD if that would actually be a benefit. That's a $12K lesson I'll never repeat.

We are a single car family. My daughter's family is car free. Life would be a lot easier if I could just send the car to her when she needs it (i.e. in the middle of the night taking a sick kid to the hospital) instead of having to get up. Or go over to spend the day with her and send the car back so my husband could use it for something else.

And imagine never having to pay for parking again? Just send the car to a 'waiting' lot.

 

[TK211X]

14th / 13:00 PST - 12.3 Goes out

15th / 22:00 PST - Extra Wave

———————————————-

16th / 07:00 PST - Another Wave?

 

[sleepydoc]

OP said they had just subscribed within the last two days. And from their description of the accident, they basically drove their car into on-coming traffic, turned on FSD Beta, and expected it to save them:



And here's their dash cam. You can't even tell at what point he activated it. Looks like he might have activated it while the car was rolling:

This is not for V12 but we were talking about similar issues for not receiving V12 quickly:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY/comments/1bf3l2q/got_into_an_accident_with_fsd_is_it_totaled

SMH. How stupid can you be? He couldn't reach the brake with his foot? He said he'd been using it every chance he got so he should have had an idea of its shortcomings yet he engaged it when he wasn't ready to properly supervise or take over. makes me wonder how he passed his driver's license.

 

[sleepydoc]

Care to explain why you are jumping all over me but not correcting everyone else who uses the term "driving" when describing what the car is doing when FSDb is engaged?

that was actually a reference to a tangent several pages back where people got hyped up over semantics and what the technical meaning of 'drive' is. It went on for several pages. Suffice it to say you don't want to waste your time reading it, just know that it exists and was the source for the comment.

Geez, next time I'll be sure to put a HUGE /S

In all fairness I didn't view your post(s) as sarcasm at all; you seemed to be digging in to defend someone who wasn't adequately supervising their car with FSD. I don't know if that was your intent but that's how I interpreted it.

 

[PianoAl]

Terrible and Scary Drive with V12.3 today.

Today I drove this route, as I do a few times per week.

It's most two-lane roads with a 55 MPH speed limit. Things that happened:

1. On a curve, the car went well over the double yellow line when a car was coming in the other direction. I saved the dashcam footage, and I'll post that tomorrow.

2. The car often drove on the double yellow line, such that I'd hear the tires bumping on the plastic lane markers or vibrating from the groves in the lines. This happened even on straightaways. It consistently hugged the center line.

3. Although the speed stuttering is perhaps less that it was, the car consistently drives too slowly. I set the max speed to 58 MPH, and the car will drive 50 or 51 MPH even on straightaways, no other cars around, sunny, dry pavement.

4. Four times, the car went way too fast around a curve. Here's what I think happened. As mentioned, the car drives too slowly, so on a straightaway, I'll press the accelerator to bring the speed up to 58 MPH and release my foot. The car keeps driving at 58 MPH, even when it comes to a curve. Some of these were dramatic and scary. I can't say whether staying at the new speed is a new thing, because it hasn't driven too slowly in the past. OTOH, I did not notice this behavior on V12.2.1. I've done this same drive two or three times with 12.2.1.

I reported all these events.

V11.4.9 and earlier versions were much better on this drive.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Terrible and Scary Drive with V12.3 today.

Today I drove this route, as I do a few times per week.

View attachment 1028526
It's most two-lane roads with a 55 MPH speed limit. Things that happened:

1. On a curve, the car went well over the double yellow line when a car was coming in the other direction. I saved the dashcam footage, and I'll post that tomorrow.

2. The car often drove on the double yellow line, such that I'd hear the tires bumping on the plastic lane markers or vibrating from the groves in the lines. This happened even on straightaways. It consistently hugged the center line.

3. Although the speed stuttering is perhaps less that it was, the car consistently drives too slowly. I set the max speed to 58 MPH, and the car will drive 50 or 51 MPH even on straightaways, no other cars around, sunny, dry pavement.

4. Four times, the car went way too fast around a curve. Here's what I think happened. As mentioned, the car drives too slowly, so on a straightaway, I'll press the accelerator to bring the speed up to 58 MPH and release my foot. The car keeps driving at 58 MPH, even when it comes to a curve. Some of these were dramatic and scary. I can't say whether staying at the new speed is a new thing, because it hasn't driven too slowly in the past. OTOH, I did not notice this behavior on V12.2.1. I've done this same drive two or three times with 12.2.1.

I reported all these events.

V11.4.9 and earlier versions were much better on this drive.

Yikes. That’s not encouraging at all. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Dutchie]

All this talk about the driver still bring responsible got me thinking.

There are about 30,000 traffic fatalities in the US per year. Say that every car has FSD and and 99% of these fatalities will be prevented. So that 30,000 will go down all the way to 300 per year. That is a great success!

The issue for Tesla is that if Tesla is taking responsibility and not the driver than Tesla will be responsible for these 300 fatalaties. That is one death per day!. Tesla would never survive that. Even when FSD is such a great success Tesla will never take that responsibility unless society will have a totally different view in how we sort these kind out thinks out.

 

[TK211X]

The issue for Tesla is that if Tesla is taking responsibility and not the driver than Tesla will be responsible for these 300 fatalaties.

Is a Fatalaties tastier than a Frappuccino?

 

[jabloomf1230]

4. Four times, the car went way too fast around a curve. Here's what I think happened.

V11.4.9 and earlier versions were much better on this drive.

You'd think that the lateral accelerometer would augment the vision system when traversing a curve. I'm of the mind that Tesla should add a UI setting to all cars that would allow adjustment of the maximum lateral acceleration. Sometimes I don't want to drive like a Formula 1 driver .

I disagree with you about V11, though. It often drives too fast through tight curves.

 

[kabin]

It's starting to get a bit more real now that a few people are downloading as well as driving during the day with traffic. MilliVanilliBean had an oh-$h% moment today with a brief steer in to an oncoming pickup in the middle of an intersection.

 

[arnolddeleon]

Yes on that alert. I had to have my wife watch for it because I was busy stopping the lane change.

Your observation of this on 11.4.9 is consistent with the idea that 12.2.1 used the 11.4.9 freeway code. How do we know they kept that old code?

On freeways, 12.2.1 felt the same to me as 11.4.9, but it did seem to handle one freeway onramp issue better. 11.4.9 often failed to merge into the freeway lane before the onramp lane became an off-ramp lane and ego got confused and swerved and/or exited. 12.2.1, on a couple test runs managed the merge correctly and smoothly.

I don't how I missed it, but the release notes clearly spell out:

"FSD Beta v12 upgrades the city-streets driving stack to single end-to-end neural network trained on millions of video clips, replacing over 300k lines of explicit C++ code."

That is the extent of the release notes.

So, freeway driving is clearly V11. I'm assuming "autospeed" on the freeway is a V12ism that was grafted on.

 

[powertoold]

Your feedback has been great. All I am looking for right now is steady improvement.
Something we haven't seen in about a year. Hopefully the days of 2 steps forward and 1 step back are in the rear view mirror, unless you own a Cybertruck...!

(The Cybertruck rear view mirror is worthless when cover is closed)

These big drops on teslafi of v11 on various branches makes me very skeptical about any V12 wide release soon, especially outside CA

12.3 is definitely amazing. In the bay area, it makes the city driving performance and reliability close to the experience we get on highways.

With 12.3, I activate it the moment I back out of my parking spot or driveway, so I give it a lot more chances to mess up. I expect it to do everything, and in most cases it does, but it does also mess up on rare situations, and in those moments, driverless still feels far away.

For example, it was trying to pull into a driveway, but there was another car that was blocking the driveway, 12.3 still tried to squeeze in and basically was gonna get the other car.

 

[FSDtester#1]

Care to explain why you are jumping all over me but not correcting everyone else who uses the term "driving" when describing what the car is doing when FSDb is engaged?

Answered by the doc. I won't engage in your subterfuge. You know what you said.
Nobody is buying the sarcasm excuse.
Safety for us and our families is the most important thing. Any suggestions of relying on anything other than ourselves to keep us and the public at large safe, is baseless.