FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[zoomer0056]

I use Advanced.

Setting software preference to standard tends to ensure a more stable version as it has been installed on more cars. The advanced setting tends to be more bleeding edge meaning there will be defects requiring bug fix installs. From the manual:

 

[dflowerz]

Ugh. Still stuck on 11.4.9 for a month or two or more. I always test at the stop sign turning into my neighborhood and if it has issues with that then I don't use it. Hopeful 12.x will do better. Looking forward to getting it!

 

[Mardak]

Looks like Tesla is deploying 12.3 on a state-by-state basis. For those in Arizona, California, Georgia, North Carolina, Texas, Virginia; the rollout seems to be roughly 10-15% chance. TeslaFi also has one-off installs from Florida, Illinois, Nevada, Oregon perhaps special access. Also consistent with 12.2 rollout, only going to HW3 with landscape center screen so far (unless special access).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Could the video clips being fed from all vehicles be causing the vehicle to miscalculate the size of the vehicle? Such as a model 3 handing turning past a curb (but close) and those same clips trained for a model x to handle that situation but it treats it like it a model 3 footprint? Or is that not how it works.

No idea.

But even with a Model 3 that would be taking the wrong line. The margins should extremely rarely be tight enough that the small width difference between Model 3 and S would make much difference.

The issue is the wrong line around the corner. In this case I would guess the curb is frequently hit by humans due to nonstandard factors, but would have to geolocate to confirm. In any case, it was the wrong line taken by 12.3 which is the root cause here, not the unusual curb position.

Beware. The curbing will soon begin - be careful with your driving with 12 in unusual situations. Both the curbing I have seen were non-standard (but v11.4.9 probably would have been fine).

 

[kabin]

BTW, be careful out there, 12.3 does get very close to curbs:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1768989688680124423

That's a bummer but was only a matter of time. Of course it's more apt to happen with gee-look-at-me hands off driving.

V12.2.1 also tended to be a close talker to anything near by. AI Driver showed a video with inches to spare. And another driver turned in a driveway and nearly hit a parked white pickup. And I think Omar had at least one near miss during an intersection left turn.

Hopefully it isn't overtraining to accommodate Chuck's bizarre narrow residential street design.

 

[PianoAl]

Terrible and Scary Drive with V12.3 today.

Today I drove this route, as I do a few times per week.

View attachment 1028526
It's most two-lane roads with a 55 MPH speed limit. Things that happened:

1. On a curve, the car went well over the double yellow line when a car was coming in the other direction. I saved the dashcam footage, and I'll post that tomorrow.

2. The car often drove on the double yellow line, such that I'd hear the tires bumping on the plastic lane markers or vibrating from the groves in the lines. This happened even on straightaways. It consistently hugged the center line.

3. Although the speed stuttering is perhaps less that it was, the car consistently drives too slowly. I set the max speed to 58 MPH, and the car will drive 50 or 51 MPH even on straightaways, no other cars around, sunny, dry pavement.

4. Four times, the car went way too fast around a curve. Here's what I think happened. As mentioned, the car drives too slowly, so on a straightaway, I'll press the accelerator to bring the speed up to 58 MPH and release my foot. The car keeps driving at 58 MPH, even when it comes to a curve. Some of these were dramatic and scary. I can't say whether staying at the new speed is a new thing, because it hasn't driven too slowly in the past. OTOH, I did not notice this behavior on V12.2.1. I've done this same drive two or three times with 12.2.1.

I reported all these events.

V11.4.9 and earlier versions were much better on this drive.

Okay, here's the video that demonstrates problem #1:

The car did not start to recover. That is, driving back to the lane was all me.

Watching it, I was starting to wonder whether I'd somehow inadvertently disengaged prior to the drift, but I know that's not the case because the message to report what happened immediately appeared after I grabbed the wheel. I reported it, of course.

 

[asterothe]

Looks like Tesla is deploying 12.3 on a state-by-state basis. For those in Arizona, California, Georgia, North Carolina, Texas, Virginia; the rollout seems to be roughly 10-15% chance. TeslaFi also has one-off installs from Florida, Illinois, Nevada, Oregon perhaps special access. Also consistent with 12.2 rollout, only going to HW3 with landscape center screen so far (unless special access).

No HW4 so far? Discouraging.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Okay, here's the video that demonstrates problem #1:

The car did not start to recover. That is, driving back to the lane was all me.

Watching it, I was starting to wonder whether I'd somehow inadvertently disengaged prior to the drift, but I know that's not the case because the message to report what happened immediately appeared after I grabbed the wheel. I reported it, of course.

I wonder if the faint markings just prior (the marking was fine when the line was crossed) confused the NNs?

Actually looks like some sort of video artifact since the line appears out of nowhere in the video (it is there, and not very faint, just not visible in the video).

I assume the surfboard had no impact on drive quality you reported, though with NN’s you never know. Even the most advanced ones running on supercomputers are pretty darn dumb, as we know.

 

[zoomer0056]

state-by-state

Maybe it's city based.

 

[Cal1]

Okay, here's the video that demonstrates problem #1:

The car did not start to recover. That is, driving back to the lane was all me.

Watching it, I was starting to wonder whether I'd somehow inadvertently disengaged prior to the drift, but I know that's not the case because the message to report what happened immediately appeared after I grabbed the wheel. I reported it, of course.

That seems so strange. I had the opposite experience when an oncoming driver crossed the line. My 2021 MS actually steered toward the curb to avoid a collision. I took over too quickly to see how far it would have gone. And didn’t honk the horn to get a recording of what just happened. Clearly both the center line and oncoming traffic are monitored.

 

[sleepydoc]

No kidding, if I see one more video of someone with their hands in their lap, off the wheel, I am gonna puke. These people are begging for a collision .

@AlanSubie4Life has given countless tips on the proper way to handle nags, anticipate and react to potentially bad scenarios, how to supervise the wheel or yoke, and none of them involved his hands in his lap.

Agree. Most of the tips don’t work for me, but it doesn’t matter - one absolutely needs to pay attention and be prepared to take over at any time. Period.

 

[sleepydoc]

12.3 predates all of the recent video clip gathering (Elon retweets AI Girl 12.3 drive on 12th, comments on adversarial training data gathering from Chuck’s turn on the 13th), so this should be an easy win for me.

I’m going to count my chickens and say I am open to a follow-on bet for the next version which will be properly overfit to Chuck’s turn.

I’ve forgotten - what was the bet? If FSD doesn’t actually kill someone you win?

 

[rlsd]

No HW4 so far? Discouraging.

Didn't Elon say HW4 is 6 months behind HW3?

 

[rlsd]

I wonder if the faint markings just prior (the marking was fine when the line was crossed) confused the NNs?

Actually looks like some sort of video artifact since the line appears out of nowhere in the video (it is there, and not very faint, just not visible in the video).

I assume the surfboard had no impact on drive quality you reported, though with NN’s you never know. Even the most advanced ones running on supercomputers are pretty darn dumb, as we know.

View attachment 1028606

The surfboard could be a factor. I drive on winding hills every day and did not notice any issue. Or the camera needs recalibration?

 

[flutas]

Meaning it hits them (as predicted, and seen previously). Not only very close.

JillyBean got lucky that it went way over this curb and saved the wheel (assuming it wasn’t dented, but low speed so probably ok). Unfortunately not bothering to geolocate this one to figure out what about this curb made it more likely to be hit. It does look like a slightly non-standard situation, though the car clearly took the wrong line as well.

I'm wondering if the SUV on the right had anything to do with it. Not "by an insurance definition this vehicle caused it", but "this was a parameter that tripped up FSDb" caused it.

To me looks like the SUV is hugging the left line in their turn on the visuals, so I wonder if that "made" (it can always stop if it's uncertain) FSDb hug the left hand line, and it was actually too close to the curb.

 

[sleepydoc]

That seems so strange. I had the opposite experience when an oncoming driver crossed the line. My 2021 MS actually steered toward the curb to avoid a collision. I took over too quickly to see how far it would have gone. And didn’t honk the horn to get a recording of what just happened. Clearly both the center line and oncoming traffic are monitored.

Agree - concerning and perplexing. There’s zero reason for it to cross a double yellow line, especially with an oncoming car.

 

[KLam]

BTW, be careful out there, 12.3 does get very close to curbs:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1768989688680124423

On my MS. I always drive myself around some turns which have sharp curvature curbs. I also slow down extra when entering and exiting entrances. Some of them have steep elevations and I need to raise my suspension to High. Lucky that MS can remember the locations that I have set my suspension height.

 

[PianoAl]

3. Although the speed stuttering is perhaps less that it was, the car consistently drives too slowly. I set the max speed to 58 MPH, and the car will drive 50 or 51 MPH even on straightaways, no other cars around, sunny, dry pavement.

4. Four times, the car went way too fast around a curve. Here's what I think happened. As mentioned, the car drives too slowly, so on a straightaway, I'll press the accelerator to bring the speed up to 58 MPH and release my foot. The car keeps driving at 58 MPH, even when it comes to a curve. Some of these were dramatic and scary. I can't say whether staying at the new speed is a new thing, because it hasn't driven too slowly in the past. OTOH, I did not notice this behavior on V12.2.1. I've done this same drive two or three times with 12.2.1.

Here's a video that demonstrates those problems:

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I’ve forgotten - what was the bet? If FSD doesn’t actually kill someone you win?

90% success on a total of at least ten attempts on Chuck’s high-speed-cross-traffic unprotected left. This has never been accomplished with any prior version of FSD. The first 9 would be a momentous achievement in the annals of ADAS; the first small step towards autonomy (requires a few more 9s).

Follow this quote for more discussion, and there is a lot more in 10.69, but this is the summary.

Same metric as before.

No interventions by the driver or other drivers. (Covers creeping at the wrong time or too far, cutting it too close, not accelerating up to speed and forcing traffic to go around or slow down, etc.). Any honking from other drivers is disqualifying.

Missing large easy opportunities (more than five-second gaps).

So basically just normal driving. No mistakes, no weirdness, no interventions.

Using the median is weirdness and very silly, but that’s allowed.

Anyway no change from prior rules in 10.69 thread. That covers minimum number of attempts too.

 

[gottagofast]

Terrible and Scary Drive with V12.3 today.

Today I drove this route, as I do a few times per week.

View attachment 1028526
It's most two-lane roads with a 55 MPH speed limit. Things that happened:

1. On a curve, the car went well over the double yellow line when a car was coming in the other direction. I saved the dashcam footage, and I'll post that tomorrow.

2. The car often drove on the double yellow line, such that I'd hear the tires bumping on the plastic lane markers or vibrating from the groves in the lines. This happened even on straightaways. It consistently hugged the center line.

3. Although the speed stuttering is perhaps less that it was, the car consistently drives too slowly. I set the max speed to 58 MPH, and the car will drive 50 or 51 MPH even on straightaways, no other cars around, sunny, dry pavement.

4. Four times, the car went way too fast around a curve. Here's what I think happened. As mentioned, the car drives too slowly, so on a straightaway, I'll press the accelerator to bring the speed up to 58 MPH and release my foot. The car keeps driving at 58 MPH, even when it comes to a curve. Some of these were dramatic and scary. I can't say whether staying at the new speed is a new thing, because it hasn't driven too slowly in the past. OTOH, I did not notice this behavior on V12.2.1. I've done this same drive two or three times with 12.2.1.

I reported all these events.

V11.4.9 and earlier versions were much better on this drive.

They really like making the car drive close to the center of the road, it needs to favor the side of the road on 2 lane roads, it’s like this for me on ver 11.4 too