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Did Chuck finally get v12?

If we’re on OS 2024.2.7
Is Tesla taking us back to 2023.44 for v12 access?
If our subscription is not currently active, do we need to reactivate in order to trigger a 2023.44 download and ability to use v12.3?
 
No parameters to tweak in end to end NN training. That is the main issue with NN.

Think of how you would correct a child - except you tell a child a couple of times to correct but with NN its a few thousand times ;)
This is what I saw. They are talking about weights, parameters, hyperparameters. They are fuzzy to me.



What I was thinking are called Weight and Bias (independent of input) in this article if I understand correctly.

 
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the driver monitoring and nags, it may be that Tesla just doesn't want to put a lot of effort into the finer points of assisted driving features and override controls

I don’t think at this point that Tesla thinks they are going to have something other than a driving assist for at least a few years. So probably going to get that speed control fixed!

Will this be the version my wife won’t be looking for the brake peddle in the passenger seat?
No. Certainly not.


First drive this morning 7 miles, 4 disengagements, 10 or so interventions for speed and lane selection.

As was mentioned it does not know that it needs to ease off for red lights and stopped traffic, before it gets to them.

Was overly aggressive in a parking lot with a couple three year olds. Had to disengage, just disrespectful driving. Nice that it can drive here now, but currently useless there.

No notable improvement overall vs. v11. Very very different. If they fix the obvious problems quickly it will be quite a bit better than v11 though. The fundamentals of driving behavior seem a bit more natural which is why I think this. But we’ll see if they can fix the obvious problems - in the past this has taken years.

Next couple segments next.
 
You're not on ignore.

. But the crowd in here generally has been keeping up, has been testing the new releases, and have been reporting results. So.. what are you adding?

My last post on the topic.

Given almost 6000 posts vs the roll-out of V12, I honestly have difficulty believing that the crowd here has been keeping up with all the V12 versions (most here didn't get offered it unless in the past 24 hours) and thus can't have been testing. They have been reporting on the reporting and many, like me, are seeing concerning behaviour (like not hitting a person getting out of a car in a parking lot because the tesla hit the person's car instead.)

You do you. I'll continue to be the naysayer.

You can look at the progress and I can look at the problems and the careless use of the product that makes things worse for the rest of us (i.e. AP nags and loss of scroll wheel to dismiss, I believe due to "nag elimination modules" - so you can be damned sure I'm hoping the loss of scroll wheel was an inadvertent bug.)

My posts may disturb this thread's starry-eyed echo-chamber but they also serve as a reminder of the real hump tesla has to get over, not just winning over those like me who are disappointed with their FSD purchase but also the vast majority of owners who have NOT bought FSD and need what was promised, not what has been delivered so far, in order to become subscribers to or purchasers of FSD.
 
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I wonder if Tesla trains videos specific to each car model.

We have some evidence that each model is separate?
1) For Chuck's turn, he saw all kinds of Tesla models.
2) During the Elon livestream, Ashok mentioned some issue specific to Model S.
Funny you should mention that. My 2021 MS Plaid received Elon Mode.
(More on that in a sec)

Just came back from 90 minutes of driving. 15 minutes freeway, the rest, my toughest stuff around me in residential.

1 intervention, coming to a traffic light and needing to make a U turn when it turned green. It was going too slow along with the wrong arc. I pulled It harder left and gave it juice.

1 almost intervention, it almost went straight from the protected red light turn lane.
I let it go, rerouted to the left.

It's not afraid of curbs in parking lots. It almost plays chicken with them.

Speed control is useless, no setting changes anything. The car will go the speed it wants, hopefully fixed in future. Offset, useless. Only exception is without speed control, you can force it slower, but is slows down painfully late.

All else, perfection. My review is probably jaded because of God Mode.
Either an error, or some of my shilling paid off.
What is God or Elon mode?
Not 1 nag on all drives!! I even did the things on purpose to get a nag.
Never happened.

Due to this, I will not be updating in the future. Staying on V12.3 permanently.
Great job Tesla, the future looks bright for all of you who will be getting future updates. As long as I don't have nags, no updates for me.

Edit: Of course no cheat devices, I despise them
 
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I don’t think at this point that Tesla thinks they are going to have something other than a driving assist for at least a few years. So probably going to get that speed control fixed!


No. Certainly not.


First drive this morning 7 miles, 4 disengagements, 10 or so interventions for speed and lane selection.

As was mentioned it does not know that it needs to ease off for red lights and stopped traffic, before it gets to them.

Was overly aggressive in a parking lot with a couple three year olds. Had to disengage, just disrespectful driving. Nice that it can drive here now, but currently useless there.

No notable improvement overall vs. v11. Very very different. If they fix the obvious problems quickly it will be quite a bit better than v11 though. The fundamentals of driving behavior seem a bit more natural which is why I think this. But we’ll see if they can fix the obvious problems - in the past this has taken years.

Next couple segments next.
I had an out a back today of 38miles each way and I experienced the opposite at lights. I found the braking to be human like. At one intersection, I had a green light but didn't have enough room to clear the intersection as there was a car in my lane on the other side of it. She stopped at the light and when she had enough room to clear it, she did it pro style. Had one disengagment when she didn't want to get on a merge lane.

Publix parking lot was human like, although I didn't have any kids or stupid people to test it.

I found Chill driving mode on aggressive is pro status for the Orlando area. All in all, this version makes me feel like it was worth it.
 
You're not on ignore.

I got zero objections about scanning around for people's responses. Heck, I do that blinking all the time. And, when actually using FSD-b, both the complaints and kudos taken in from monitoring these FSD threads are invaluable in Reducing The Amount Of Surprise. Which is a survival-positive thing; people have told tales around campfires and the like since we got speech (and maybe before), the better to reduce the chances of being eaten, eating the wrong thing, or generally Staying Away From That Sudden Cliff. Storytelling about hazardous things is part of what makes us human, and, like I said, is a survival positive thing.

A little imagination in these stories is a good thing; if X caused Y, then XX causing YY isn't a bad thing to talk about. Or to figure out root causes and all that.

But.. there's this old-time nursery story that, I think, every kid in every culture gets introduced to early on: "The Boy Who Called Wolf." It didn't end well for the Boy. And the story is out there because while Calling Wolf is an attention-getting tactic that gets people running around like mad, once people realize that the person in question is doing an attention getting tactic, then people will ignore that person. Even if, later, said person actually does speak the truth.

You've stated that you believe FSD-b to be unusable; I believe you've stated why. You've also stated that you don't like the development churn that's going on with Tesla. You've been answered by people who have been keeping up with new releases, trying out the new UI's, and have generally been stating, "It's not all that bad. We're going to keep on chugging." As near as I can tell, your response has been to double down.

Which is good clean fun on the internet. I suppose. But the crowd in here generally has been keeping up, has been testing the new releases, and have been reporting results. So.. what are you adding?

My last post on the topic.
And that my friends is what I call a warranted WWF Smackdown...
Great job Tron.

Ignore button activated
 
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I don’t think at this point that Tesla thinks they are going to have something other than a driving assist for at least a few years. So probably going to get that speed control fixed!


No. Certainly not.


First drive this morning 7 miles, 4 disengagements, 10 or so interventions for speed and lane selection.

As was mentioned it does not know that it needs to ease off for red lights and stopped traffic, before it gets to them.

Was overly aggressive in a parking lot with a couple three year olds. Had to disengage, just disrespectful driving. Nice that it can drive here now, but currently useless there.

No notable improvement overall vs. v11. Very very different. If they fix the obvious problems quickly it will be quite a bit better than v11 though. The fundamentals of driving behavior seem a bit more natural which is why I think this. But we’ll see if they can fix the obvious problems - in the past this has taken years.

Next couple segments next.
What part of the Country are you in? I’ve done three drives with zero interventions. Maybe North County San Diego is just easy to drive in.
 
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Using 12.3 on auto max speed, I noticed that rolling the right scroll wheel flashes an up or down arrow next to the Auto MAX indicator. I did not notice any change in speed after doing this, so I can't say that the scroll wheel has any effect. Also curious that there is no way to see how much you might have increased or decreased the max speed with the scroll wheel. Mysterious. Perhaps something to be used in a future version?

Driving on a limited access highway with auto max speed enabled in a 70 mph zone results in 80 mph max speed displayed by default. You can change it with the scroll wheel, but curious that V11 does not use whatever you had set for speed offset.

Also, I disabled auto max speed while driving on city streets and V12 showed the max speed to 85 mph! It didn't try to speed up to 85. It still drove at the speed it thought was appropriate. But curious to see 85. Perhaps that was the auto max speed that it had set at the time?
 
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Just went for an over a hour of all inner city driving. Over all VERY impressed and by far the least number of disengagements per mile EVER. I think I only had about 5 or 6. Not sure about the auto speed since it almost always too slow (in urban) but at least you can "adjust" it (up) with the go peddle. It was able to "figure. out" a couple of confusing construction sites that v11 would fall flat. Really impressed on the different ways it is handling different types of speed bumps.
 
I don’t think at this point that Tesla thinks they are going to have something other than a driving assist for at least a few years. So probably going to get that speed control fixed!
The whole FSD Beta thing and ppl actually thinking they will be getting an unsupervised system is like volunteering for experimental herpes treatment...

Tesla: First we give you herpes.
Sucker: And then?
Tesla: What do you mean "and then"?
 
Yea, what is a Beaver in the street?🤔 Is that a Yankee thing? 🤣 Never heard that term before.
It's just some 1 inch metallic sculpture at the entrance to my neighborhood in the ground in the brick road before the asphalt starts again.
Drove over it a thousand times, just a minor bump.
I guess the builder liked Beavers 🦫, I never have seen the actual animal near my house.
 
Did Chuck finally get v12?

If we’re on OS 2024.2.7
Is Tesla taking us back to 2023.44 for v12 access?
If our subscription is not currently active, do we need to reactivate in order to trigger a 2023.44 download and ability to use v12.3?
Yes on Chuck. V12.3 is acing his formerly problematic scenarios. UPLs are good except when the left is clear and it heads out to the median island way too leisurely. I'm not sure what Chuck is going to focus on next, but it wont be narrow unmarked lanes, double green lights, nor (soon) UPLs.
 
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The whole FSD Beta thing and ppl actually thinking they will be getting an unsupervised system is like volunteering for experimental herpes treatment...

Tesla: First we give you herpes.
Sucker: And then?
Tesla: What do you mean "and then"?
When you have Elon mode, it is unsupervised.
Very Dangerous to not pay attention, but you could fall asleep and it will drive for a bit before you wake up dead in a ditch.

I of course will not be doing that. I follow the @AlanSubie4Life method of fsd monitoring.
 
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ould you tell me the firmware you’re using (FSD 12.3?)? And is it Chill, Standard or Sport driving FSD option?
FSD 12.3. Assertive. I can try the less assertive modes, though I doubt it will make too much difference.
Would you get a different different result at Chill?
I'll try, will report at some point. The problem is that on assertive one has to be constantly on the go pedal, so it's tough to see how less assertive would help. But I definitely will change it. These options typically make little difference in fundamental behavior, though of course they change following distance, etc. More distance SHOULD help, but I've found that it usually doesn't. Need to check with v12.3.
What part of the Country are you in
San Diego County, Scripps Ranch, Mira Mesa, Sorrento Valley. Should be pretty similar to North County, except with more potholes and more run-down houses.

Remaining segments. Nothing special or notable.

Mostra to TJ's Hibert St., about 6 miles. About 5 disengagements. One for inappropriate stopping, one for bad lane selection, two for missed or taken exits, one for bad route getting out of Mostra lot. Lots of interventions of course.

Recognized and responded to TJ's speed bumps.

Missing uncomplicated freeway exits (degraded v11 somehow?). Taking the wrong freeway exit prior to that (was last second enough that I didn't bother to stop it since I could just get right back on). Obviously not using v12 on the freeways but something is degraded in the handover. SB I-15 Mercy Rd, and Mira Mesa (took Mercy incorrectly, missed Mira Mesa before I took over and made the exit)

Fundamentals:
Can it go? No. It is too slow to follow lead traffic sometimes. Sometimes it follows too closely. When it finally picks up the pace, it is nice and assertive though.
Can it stop? No. It slams on the brakes sometimes and fails to anticipate movements of vehicles ahead, and doesn't seem to be paying attention to red lights. I had a brake slamarama with traffic coming to a stop at an obvious red light. It has the new stutter step decel: very mild jittering of the amount of regen on light regen stops. It can't stop in the right place as mentioned.

ELDA activated as I was trying to parallel park manually. That's new.

Hibert St. TJ's to home:

Residential route. Just ~3 miles. Did ok overall, nice lane changes to get to residential neighborhood street.

Nearly got in a collision at a stop sign. Failed to be to the left (straight was the intended direction) when someone behind was coming up and wanting to turn right. It was slow to the stop, which of course I overrode. But I let it stop and go. Because it sat for so long doing who knows what, driver behind did not anticipate that I would still be there when they came to the stop. And there wasn't room to squeeze by, so they had to slow to avoid collision (was close). This is the danger of incorrect and broken stopping behavior. Need to drive correctly. Stop assertively and gently, then go. It's not that hard. A human would always be to the left here when they know traffic is coming up behind. It's the decent and safe thing to do.

UPLs are good except when the left is clear and it heads out to the median island way too leisurely
We haven't really seen any difficult UPLs. So far in easy conditions he's 7/12 or so (the dawdle to the median was the source of most failures). He hasn't really done much testing with traffic from the right. Hopefully he'll do another video soon, but will have to wait for the work week.

My UPL this morning was better than last night. No traffic and an easy scenario. It half used the merging lane (straddled the solid white line like a pro - not what I would do, but whatever, there was no traffic). I'm fairly certain I will have to disengage nearly every time with traffic (cross traffic is 55-70mph; it's a legally unenforceable 45mph zone as mentioned previously). Will find out soon enough.
 
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