FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[KLam]

I’d be fine with this if it allowed use of the original method of speed control. But the old mode no longer exists.

But seems it is a limitation of the NNs and they CAN’T have a system that just ramps up to the set speed reliably, as it did before, when it has to take into account many other factors as input to the neural network. But right now the NN seems to completely ignore any inputs from driver requested speed above a certain level when using the old mode (which is now a new mode because it is not the same as the old mode).

That being said it seems to be consistently below the limit (perhaps a safety guardrail as you say), so surely they can fix that with training.

But it may be that this borking is going to be with us for the long term. We’ll see if they can figure it out. It could be a more difficult problem than autowipers!

It seems tricky to train a neural network on what speed it should travel. And apparently they can’t just tell it the speed (otherwise the old mode would work). So the days of the car traveling at the requested speed may be behind us.

You see, there are infinite number of users. Each have a different preferences on Speed on certain roads, different acceleration preferences, different slow down profile preferences, different road conditions, position of stop signs relative to the stop lines, different weather conditions, etc. It is quite difficult to settle on a one size fit all parameters.

I have no idea what Tesla is doing or going to do. But here with one input of just the accelerator, Tesla can collect a lot of information on the general public preferences. Also, the users are very familiar to setting the cruise speed with the accelerator.

 

[Acisplat]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1770289989009695017

So now us still on 11.4.9 are going to have to wait at the back of the line for 12.3.1

 

[j0shm1lls]

So now us still on 11.4.9 are going to have to wait at the back of the line for 12.3.1

I swear to sweet baby Jesus, if I have to wait till the end of the line of 12.3.1..... I'll... I'll be sad.

 

[Acisplat]

I swear to sweet baby Jesus, if I have to wait till the end of the line of 12.3.1..... I'll... I'll be sad.

Elon promises V12.420.69 will be the one everyone can have /s

 

[Ben W]

Waiting for v12.3 to download and install be like

 

[Sweed269]

It took 2-3 hours to install after it downloaded

 

[TK211X]

I swear to sweet baby Jesus, if I have to wait till the end of the line of 12.3.1..... I'll... I'll be sad.

It’s not the destination it’s the journey maaaaan.

 

[EVNow]

First trip. While going out to dinner it was sunny and return was dark but clear.

After we had reached the restaurant I asked my family whether they noticed anything different. They said no ... so at least they didn't realize there were changes, unprompted. While coming back I showed them some differences and they agreed. So, I guess some of the things (like wheel jitter and lane selection) only drivers will notice, not passengers (unless they are closely following what the car is doing, which they won't normally).

Better
- No more stopping at the tiny roundabouts !
- No more stopping at the flashing yellow light (before turning)
- Jittery wheel movements almost eliminated
- Better lane selection (still some weird lane changes)
- Stops at the curb instead of in the middle of the road

Worse
- Takes forever to get to max speed (and many times it won't)
- Slows down (unnecessarily) for some things V11 didn't

 

[FSDtester#1]

Nice to see some of the lurkers posting for the first time here.
Keep it up. The new takes on fsd are great to hear.
Constantly reading posts from people like me and @AlanSubie4Life
has got to be more frustrating than V12 speed controls.

 

[FSDtester#1]

I swear to sweet baby Jesus, if I have to wait till the end of the line of 12.3.1..... I'll... I'll be sad.

If you don't get it tonight, you probably don't actually own a Tesla, have FSD, and are probably a 40 year old virgin.

 

[Supcom]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1770291294163845605

 

[Mardak]

So now us still on 11.4.9 are going to have to wait at the back of the line for 12.3.1

Not necessarily. Previous FSD Beta rollouts for new versions did not always give priority to those on the most recent version. Given that this is fixing 12.3 "small annoyances" as opposed to potentially unsafe behaviors (12.2.1 hitting parked vehicles?), 12.3.1 could go to a random selection of those still on 2023.44.30.x (independent of whether it's 11.x or 12.x; except special groups still go first).

Additionally, just because there's known incoming fixes doesn't prevent 12.3 to continue expanding its rollout if it's indeed safer than 11.x.

 

[swedge]

Maybe we should add an Elon curse quotient as a score of usability?

Most of my V11 interventions were to minimize my Honk score, for example tapping the go pedal at a stop sign before the guy behind me honked. So Honk score was a negative rating.

Today, FSD v12.3 was in the left turn lane when a pickup along side of us but slightly ahead turned on his blinker. FSD slowed to let the truck in, and the driver gave us a thank you wave. I patted the top of the display to say "well done" to FSD. So the Grateful Wave Score is now a thing, a positive rating.

FSD also stopped for a flagman who was signaling for a short temporary stretch of one way road for tree trimming. FSD stopped straight ahead, even though the flagman with his hand held stop sign was at the left edge fo our lane. Perfect behavior. FSD did not proceed when the flag man waved us through, but a tiny tap on to the go-pedal got FSD under way very nicely.

My SO co-pilot was impressed with both of these moves, so there may be hope for FSD after all.

 

[archae86]

First drive with 12.3--just a couple of key impressions:
1. Driving on the interstate was more different than the "it is still just V11 there" folks described. In particular, it decided to set me to 72 mph in a 65.

2. The key wonderful thing--it allows itself to use going a bit faster to adjust to other vehicles in a lane-changing situation:

Explanation: All FSD I've driven until now has any moment a MAX speed which is also the current target cruise speed. Since it does not go above max, this means that in adjusting to merge with other traffic the dimension of going just a bit faster is often not available.

Good V12 example today: I was on a road where two lanes going my way suddenly turned to one. My lane was the one getting dropped, which was not visible very far ahead. The car noticed, figured out that it could fix things by a nice little accelerator blip that took us to above 6 mph above limit, and smoothly slid in front of the front car in the lane it was gaining. Previous versions would not have had the option of trying this.

 

[swedge]

So now us still on 11.4.9 are going to have to wait at the back of the line for 12.3.1

If you were not updated to one of the 2024.x releases, it is probably because you are in the V12 eligible group. 12.3 is still rolling out, though slowly. It looks like sever hundred were added around 2pm pst today, so the roll out has not stopped. Yet.

On the other hand, if you have been updated to any 2024 version, you'll probably be on Fed 11.4 9 for a while. They have not yet let out a V12 version of freeways, so I wouldn't expect them to merge the production and experimental branches till that happens. The freeway addition to V11 went pretty smoothly and quickly, so it may not be a long delay, we'll see.

 

[mtndrew1]

My return commute this evening was pretty amazing in a few spots, doing some ninja moves that had me gasp out loud.

Arriving home I offered to take my spouse out to show him, which caught him off guard because he knows how disappointed I have been with FSD and how disgusted I’ve become with Elon and Tesla.

We set off for a two mile trip to an Amazon locker and…it totally flubs like four things. Big screwups. So I got the spouse eye roll and a “sure honey it felt a little better I guess” reaction and then I sulked off to a soft spot on the sofa.

Stupid car. Anyway I’m sure it’ll do amazing stuff tomorrow when nobody is around to corroborate.

 

[j0shm1lls]

Waiting for that late night wave like

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Might be something to @PianoAl issue with accelerating then going too fast around curve. It may get sticky?

Did this with FSD, goosing it up to 55 then let off accelerator and over 5-10 seconds it got down to 54mph (no more accelerator). Then got to close to entrance to neighborhood. (Right turn onto 55mph (45mph limit) Spring Canyon to 25mph Sunset Ridge.) FSD showed no signs of slowing down for the turn even though it was signaling; furiously dialed scroll wheels down to 35 too late, which did nothing; it finally went to full braking (bar all the way to left with friction braking added) at 200 feet from intersection. I had to disengage by brake since I did not want it to slow from 49mph to 10mph or maybe miss the turn. Saved some brakes (not much) and went around the corner at 20mph. There was no one behind otherwise probably would have taken it faster.

Anyway, no surprise, this obvious horrible problem with speed is being addressed, though this byproduct described above could persist since accelerator override will still be possible (just less common).

Separate topic:

No fewer than 4-5 massive slowdowns with terrible performance today on Mira Mesa. Why does this happen? Was it not obvious with below that traffic was stopped, and had been for a good long while? Why not just use regen; there was obviously plenty of space under the curve! Just look that nutty bar! Anyway a long way to go on this problem. It’s obvious traffic is not going to be moving any time soon with a green light like that. Just use regen and slow nicely to a stop. Tons of time and space. And this was the “trickier” example.

Very very poor. SS;DD. Definitely will NOT pass the spouse test. No question. Big fat fail. Below road markings have about 23-foot repeat interval.

 

[arnolddeleon]

I think Tesla is on purpose setting the speed on the low side so that it feels more save and under control. That has proven to get more wife's approval.
As I have mentioned on my prior post that you can adjust the slow speed up by using the accelerator! The initial harder down shift in speed on approach to stops can also be adjusted by just slightly pressing the accelerator. The stop distance from the stop line can also be adjusted by the accelerator press. Drive some more and experiment with your feel to get the necessary result to your liking. Doing it this way you don't have to disengage.

I agree, I think they have "dials" turned down low for this release. We've seen it before in previous releases where it seems timid and they "unleash" it.

I suspect this is a good place to start with such a massive change, much easier to have the driver add a little more acceleration versus having them going "whoa!"

 

[Acisplat]

If you were not updated to one of the 2024.x releases, it is probably because you are in the V12 eligible group. 12.3 is still rolling out, though slowly. It looks like sever hundred were added around 2pm pst today, so the roll out has not stopped. Yet.

On the other hand, if you have been updated to any 2024 version, you'll probably be on Fed 11.4 9 for a while. They have not yet let out a V12 version of freeways, so I wouldn't expect them to merge the production and experimental branches till that happens. The freeway addition to V11 went pretty smoothly and quickly, so it may not be a long delay, we'll see.

Yeah I’m still on the pre-NHTSA recall 2023 build