FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[tivoboy]

I obviously don't need the FSD test drive when I pick up the X, but if its offered should I still do it and record it for posterity ?

How long will it take for the cameras to calibrate for the first time, before you can pull over and activate FSDb.

 

[Teetoogrn]

Isn’t it interesting that for most, in your teen years your excitement to drive was palpable, now that level of emotion is connected to the latest version of FSD.

 

[Daniel in SD]

It's a bad argument.

You have to ignore the statements from the company or even the ambitions of it's CEO that it will become a Level 4 or 5 system.

There are design limitations to FSD currently that go behind a human monitoring and frequently correcting the system. Even if there were 0 interventions, it's still a level 2 system if the human is required to supervise. FSD Beta is not even a perfected Level 2 system, which is the craziest when people say it's already L3 or L4. IF FSDB was currently a L4 system with a safety driver, the system would be able to do full DDT and fallback DDT within it's limited Operational Design Domain. The safety driver is there for liability reasons and validation of the system. The car, with a safety driver, is still designed to take complete control, but that's not the case with FSDB. How FSDB is designed, the driver is responsible for some of the OEDR or Object and Event Detection and Response or monitoring for accidents/issues/need for disengagement. A L3 system handles all DDT, monitors OEDR, but does not have a fallback DDT, that's where it asks you to take over.

FSDB is not designed as a L4 system with a safety driver...again, that's just an odd reach/leap mostly for the investor crowd to hope that Tesla is closer than it is.
View attachment 1032724

It’s not L4 though, it’s L5 so it doesn’t have an ODD. Though I doubt Waymo implemented all the requirements of L4 before they started testing on public roads so I don’t think it matters.
The design intent of V12 is unsupervised operation. What level it currently is does not matter since it obviously requires supervision either way. When it is unsupervised it will need to be L3-5 and no one has presented any argument that it won’t be.

 

[Ramphex]

Isn’t it interesting that for most, in your teen years your excitement to drive was palpable, now that level of emotion is connected to the latest version of FSD.

I honestly still like driving. Driving on FSD to me is more work than driving manually.

When I’m driving manually, I’m responsible for my actions and reactions to other people’s actions.

When FSD is driving I have to supervise and predict what unpredictable thing it’ll do next, supervise its actions and its reactions to other people’s actions, plus also have to please it by jerking off the steering wheel every 15-20 seconds and constantly looking straight to avoid “pay attention” nags.

Is it cool technology? Yes. Is it more work? To me, yes.

It does not allow me to relax. It does not allow me to not pay attention. It does not allow me to use a phone. With that being said, I still have to pay attention when I’m driving manually, but at least I don’t have to masturbate the steering wheel and can look at my phone if I want to without something complaining.

 

[JB47394]

What about non-highway situation? I thought MLC also applies in urban roads? Does V12 respect this setting like the way V11 used to do?

It seems not. I just went out on a four lane suburban road with a 45 mph speed limit with Minimal Lane Changes enabled. I got behind a slower car and V12 immediately changed lanes to pass. I had no route programmed, so there was no reason to change lanes.

 

[TK211X]

Drove to service center. Checked for update in service mode on service WiFi and no dice. Did get a snapshot button that wasn’t there before though.

Also told that if you open a service ticket about the curb issue then they can push the newer FSD version to you remotely at home. I don’t know how true this is but I’ll try it for fun.

 

[Knightshade]

I'm challenging the assumption that once it's x times safer than the best human driver, Tesla should automatically switch to legal L3.

That... isn't a thing. SAE levels don't care how "safe" it is- it cares what the design intent and what tasks the system can perform are.

You don't "switch to legal L3"--- either the systems capabilities meet the definition of L3, or they don't. Teslas system does not at present.

To simplify the definition of legal L3, let's say that legal L3 has both stopped being monitored, removed disclaimers and made Tesla legally liable. I apologize again if I abused the L3 term as what I meant was as safe as "official/legal" L3.

SAE L3 is clearly defined, but does not include anything about liability or disclaimers.

I'd strongly suggest you read SAE J3016 and then get back to the discussion as you seem not to understand what the levels actually are, contain, require, etc.

It’s not L4 though, it’s L5 so it doesn’t have an ODD.

If the only way your argument can be correct is if Tesla has spent years outright lying to both the public, and government regulators at both the state and federal level, you probably don't have a very good argument. Not that it seems to ever stop you.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

That's strange. We live in the same city, drive on the same street but your car behavior is different than mine.
You said your speed offset is 20%?
I set mine to 7 mph. It should not make any difference. But who knows.

I disengage for mistakes. I probably would have had only four if I had had MLC turned on this morning. It’s hard to cancel lane changes now due to no vibration and limited response to signal cancellation. So those can turn into disengagements. I’ll say they were dumb lane changes for MLC though.

The safety disengagements were for dangerous lane positioning (stopping in the wrong position in the lane so people can’t get past). This is dangerous because it can lead to an accident.

 

[j0shm1lls]

Tesla called, the X arrived, going to pick it up today at 4:00pm PST!

 

[kabin]

Crazy braking for a stop sign. About .47g average for a 4 sec decel from 41mph and no driver alert?

 

[rlsd]

I disengage for mistakes. I probably would have had only four if I had had MLC turned on this morning. It’s hard to cancel lane changes now due to no vibration and limited response to signal cancellation. So those can turn into disengagements. I’ll say they were dumb lane changes for MLC though.

The safety disengagements were for dangerous lane positioning (stopping in the wrong position in the lane so people can’t get past). This is dangerous because it can lead to an accident.

I don't set MLC by default. Sometimes I change to MLC on the fly via the thumb wheel.

 

[lzolman]

Sour as I am as a TSLA holder, this is quite clearly a distraction from the upcoming disappointing delivery numbers and earnings report. V12.3 is not ready for mass trial. Imagine what a couple of panic attacks or accidents would do to the reputation of the product and the company.

I'm like 8 pages behind. Rather than characterizing this campaign as a distraction, might it not be more generous to say it's a positive thing to help balance against the headwinds? And if not quite ready for Prime Time, what my eyes see is Elon pushing in all his reputational chips on this wager. That FSD remains the best un-geo-fenced ADS. I'm saying there's a chance.

 

[bhakan]

Drove to service center. Checked for update in service mode on service WiFi and no dice. Did get a snapshot button that wasn’t there before though.

Also told that if you open a service ticket about the curb issue then they can push the newer FSD version to you remotely at home. I don’t know how true this is but I’ll try it for fun.

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Is that a regular service ticket with the app and not the email? In the past Tesla asked me to send email to the FSD email address for an y FSDb related issues.

 

[JulienW]

Is that a regular service ticket with the app and not the email? In the past Tesla asked me to send email to the FSD email address for an y FSDb related issues.

I think the part about emailing FSDBeta is legacy now that FSD Beta is available to (almost) anyone and included in all software.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

drive on the same street

Good news, you’ll be able to see how my car is performing. I’m in the white Tesla.

EDIT:

 

[nikolajz1]

12.3 was a bit better on the commute today but again way worse than 11.4.9. 10 pedal presses on a 20 minute drive to get it up to speed and a few poor lane choices the previous version didn't have. Oh well....I miss V11.

If it keeps up I for sure will be pausing my FSD subscription for a bit. Base AP requires less hand holding and stress right now.

Also based on some stats I've been keeping FSD V12 is about 7 percent less efficient...probably because of the harsh acceleration and braking.

 

[Dewg]

No one else in the world (outside of Tesla fanboys) would categorize FSD as anything but a Level 2 system, because by all definitions it only meets the SAE Level 2 standards. The work around to that is either, "SAE is bullshit" or creating a conspiracy to protect themselves from regulators?

But but but... It's right there in the name!!!

Full
adjective
1.
containing or holding as much or as many as possible; having no empty space.
"wastebaskets full of rubbish"

2.
not lacking or omitting anything; complete.
"fill in your full name below"

Self
noun
a person's essential being that distinguishes them from others, especially considered as the object of introspection or reflexive action.

Driving
noun
the control and operation of a motor vehicle.

[steps back to watch the chaos unfold]

 

[PianoAl]

My auto speed was going too slow having to constantly press the accelerator. Turning it off, I now find the old school offset also being broken. It’ll drive slower than your set speed until you press the accelerator to get it up to your set speed, then it’ll maintain it.

My interpretation is that it drives too slowly, and auto-speed is irrelevant.

It will stay at the set speed even if you come to a curve, and it won't stay at the set speed for more than a minute.

 

[JohnB007]

My interpretation is that it drives too slowly, and auto-speed is irrelevant.

It will stay at the set speed even if you come to a curve, and it won't stay at the set speed for more than a minute.

Which version do you have? v12.3 or v12.3.1?

 

[sleepydoc]

Stay off the Ludes... you lost me.

Well, SOMEONE wasn’t playing attention in their engineering classes!