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Happy Birthday AP 2.0
- Thread starter lunitiks
- Start date
I love my car but definitely agree with the chorus of reasonable people that you can love a car and be disappointed over being lied to. Musk deceived us. He knew AP wouldn't roll out Dec 31. He knew the neural net wasn't functioning well in Dec 2016. He knew FSD features weren't coming in April much less June 2017. EAP hasn't even made its debut. Its clear Musk was saying these incorrect statements that ONLY he knew were incorrect at the time he said them in order to induce sales to keep the stock from tanking. I can know all of that and still love driving my car and its perfectly reasonable for me to disappointed I spent $8k on inferior software that I was promised would be superior by now (if not earlier).
mgdurand
Member
While I will leave buttershrimp to enjoy his ecstasy high, I like others are sorely disappointed in Tesla, and when the lease on my 2015 P90D is up, I plan to go back to S class Mercedes. I'm appalled at what I got for $120,000 -- not even coat hooks. I absolutely love the electric driving experience with regenerative breaking, but any brand of electric/hybrid car has that, i.e. it's not due to the genius of Elon Musk, rather it has to do with the properties of electric motors that have been made for 100+ years, way before Elon was a twinkle in his momma's eye. I also like the drive assist and dynamic cruise control, but many other cars have this, so that's also not a Tesla exclusive. If you cut out all the promotional fanfare and other forms of bull feces, there's not much left to get excited about, certainly not the quality of the product.
Not sure why my idealistic ass is still hanging around but I love a good mosh pit as much as the next guy. Thought experiment for the suicide cult on the thread....Imagine if your car was suddenly gone. Seriously... Tesla didn't exist.... you had to go to something different.
If you really allow yourself to think about it... and allow yourself the dignity of acknowledging some truth to this post I'm making... you realize that the time to get pissed is June of 2018 if your car isn't seriously advanced. Then, buttershrimp will join your class action to get a refund... until then.... you have to show me more than an ability to vent some very valid frustration.
Now, who wants some cocaine?
If you really allow yourself to think about it... and allow yourself the dignity of acknowledging some truth to this post I'm making... you realize that the time to get pissed is June of 2018 if your car isn't seriously advanced. Then, buttershrimp will join your class action to get a refund... until then.... you have to show me more than an ability to vent some very valid frustration.
Now, who wants some cocaine?
Thanks Joe.
What's worse is Tesla's similar treatment of other customers who's issues could be easily resolved. Take for example the "uncorking" thread. You have customers that were pressured into taking delivery early or taking an inventory car in June. This was obviously done so Tesla could improve its Q2 numbers. Then Tesla announces the faster S75 acceleration times only for cars delivered on or after 7/1and later but built pretty much anytime prior in the year. So where they can deliver new programming that works, they screw over the same customers they had just pressured to benefit Tesla's numbers. These poor people have tried the whole executive escalation process and don't even get a courtesy of a response. It's painful to read those posts.
To the person suggesting that the "haters" sell their underperforming AP2 cars, I bet you Tesla uncorks them as soon as they're CPO'd haha.
This all just says a lot about Tesla's integrity and their relationship with customers and owners. I like the vision but not the ethics. Competition is needed here. It will take that or customer litigation to change their behavior. Sadly I think the latter will occur first.
thegruf
Active Member
Happy Birthday AP2.0 ... read this and hoped it was about Elon was bringing the presents to the party.
Actually I am going to offer an alternate reality.
Tesla originally believed that other manufcturers were going to bring their autopilot rivalling technologies to market quicker than they have, thereby garnering Elon's ambitious promises to beat the rest to release advanced features. As other manfuacturers are slower ro market than anticipated and Tesla sales are healthy without said advanced features, Tesla can sit back and continue to refine them so they are released in a highly mature state.
maybe someone just spiked my coolaid ...
Actually I am going to offer an alternate reality.
Tesla originally believed that other manufcturers were going to bring their autopilot rivalling technologies to market quicker than they have, thereby garnering Elon's ambitious promises to beat the rest to release advanced features. As other manfuacturers are slower ro market than anticipated and Tesla sales are healthy without said advanced features, Tesla can sit back and continue to refine them so they are released in a highly mature state.
maybe someone just spiked my coolaid ...
I have, I even took a couple of hours before knee-jerk responding you. Frankly, the question just makes me question Tesla's AP2 moves more. Why risk the mission for such an insignificant thing? Why promise EAP and Level 5 capable full self-driving? The BEV thing was already its own reward. Being upfront and honest and making conservative estimates on self-driving would have been perfectly fine... As would have not making up HP numbers for P85D, implementing P90DL limiters and so forth, things that have gotten them to court...
What Tesla had at its core was beautiful, is beautiful, they could have been so much more ethical around it and just skipped all this crazy stuff... Why the antics, Tesla? So unnecessary.
As for no Tesla, I'd get that new Audi A8 and massage my weary feet on the back seat.
You do realize that you just pulled a completely arbitrary date out of your hat that has no basis or bearing on anything whatsoever. I do appreciate you setting and stating a personal deadline, but it is nothing more than that. Nobody, of course, is asking you to be dissatisfied.
IMO a reasonable person who ordered EAP+FSD in late 2016 has every right to be unsatisfied by now, though. I mean, EAP is nowhere near to be seen, nor are those FSD differentiating features. Both of those are now months late. EAP, it can be argued, is now 10 months late.
Even if and when Tesla delivers, they have been so late... not to mention the question, did they, and if so, how much, did they knowingly mislead?
⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️
Village Idiot
I wouldn’t have been happy paying $120,000 for this piece of bull feces, but for less than $70,000 it’s been well worth it. Obviously you bought the car for the wrong reasons if your dreaming about your next car being an ice Mercedes. Is there a puking emoji on this forum?
Did Elon purposefully lie to us? That is the big question. If he did, it doesn’t make sense right now, but maybe it will.
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It's understandable considering the sweet employee discount you will get from Audi.
I am one of those Audi fans. That is, I was, until 18-Apr-17, when we gave up and ordered our fully loaded MX 100D. I’m not concerned with exactly what date FSD comes (but I’ll admit that it will be one cool overnight f/w update!)
I bought a Model X 100D with every option except ludicrous in June. I am happy with the car but agree, the build is not up to my Porsche Cayenne standards. I really plan to get the Mission E when Porsche comes out with it, BUT let’s remember...I am driving a full electric car (with probably the same performance and range as the Porsche mission E will be) and I am doing it in 2017, not 2019 or early 2020.
I probably should not have paid for FSD, and in fact...a salesperson I talked to (unfortunately after I had finalized the order) recommended that I NOT pay for FSD (an honest salesperson????what?). And to answer another bitter note, I brought it in for one service appointment and they were really great-as good as Porsche dealer service if not better. SO I have had positive experiences AND I love just driving it everywhere.
-I hope they get FSD completed and it is solid.
-I really wish the phone integration and media stuff was a LOT better (no engineering excuse or regulatory excuse there, just not a priority for them)
And a few other items...
But the problem with crying that I need litigation is a really piss poor excuse for taking responsibility for your research and your decisions. Tesla is clearly a very new car manufacturer. Beyond that it is radically different tech than ICE autos. Squealing for lawyers is what will choke innovation and creation in the USA, not failure to execute everything perfectly. Caveat emptor in the end. Unlike healthcare...nobody passed a law that MADE you pay for it.
I probably should not have paid for FSD, and in fact...a salesperson I talked to (unfortunately after I had finalized the order) recommended that I NOT pay for FSD (an honest salesperson????what?). And to answer another bitter note, I brought it in for one service appointment and they were really great-as good as Porsche dealer service if not better. SO I have had positive experiences AND I love just driving it everywhere.
-I hope they get FSD completed and it is solid.
-I really wish the phone integration and media stuff was a LOT better (no engineering excuse or regulatory excuse there, just not a priority for them)
And a few other items...
But the problem with crying that I need litigation is a really piss poor excuse for taking responsibility for your research and your decisions. Tesla is clearly a very new car manufacturer. Beyond that it is radically different tech than ICE autos. Squealing for lawyers is what will choke innovation and creation in the USA, not failure to execute everything perfectly. Caveat emptor in the end. Unlike healthcare...nobody passed a law that MADE you pay for it.
Super_Popular
Well-Known Member
Hey now, you leave Maye out of this, she's epic cool and a super model right now....she's amazing.
IMaye Musk (@mayemusk) • Instagram photos and videos
She's way cooler than Elon.
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It makes a lot of sense if you go back and look at what was happening at the time. Tesla had suffered a really bad PR summer with the death. Tesla was battling to show a Q3 profit to keep investor confidence high - and Tesla was also fighting to save Solar City (purchase it). If you buy the idea that keeping confidence high is absolutely critical to being able to access the capital markets to keep development moving forward (I do) - then minimizing timeframes looks quite rational. If you also buy the idea that getting a fleet of AP2 cars on the road for data gathering and learning was/is important for the development of FSD - then that's more support for the idea that simply lying to the people was the rational action at the time.
The folks here on TMC demonstrate a rather simplistic notion that equates telling the truth with achieving success. I stay away from ethical pronouncements about the truth. The folks here also seem to frequently equate their feelings as somehow being correlated to Tesla's business success - again, imho, a mistake. And finally the folks here seem to think their feelings of dissatisfaction are a barometer for the buying public and most Tesla owners. This is, again, a mistake in my opinion.
And the facts are this: for the most part the public thinks AP2 is marching along fine (so do I btw and I own one as well as AP1) and the debate here on TMC amounts to a kerfuffle. Tesla owners are delighted with their cars. Not one of the 7 friends I have with Model 3 reservations have cancelled them or seem concerned (or aware) of this complaint-fest on TMC about the lost time of AP2 development.
35,000 people have purchased FSD - that is over one hundred million dollars in cash for Tesla to use as it wishes. And of course we don't know how many Teslas were sold that otherwise would not have been, had the "full self driving" announcement not been made.
And here's reality - if our AP2 cars turn out not to be capable of legal FSD ever - but Tesla does produce an FSD car that would not have been possible without the development and AI knowledge gained with the AP2 customer fleet and cash from sales and capital-market-tapping - then Tesla will have done the rational thing by lying back in 2016. And nobody will give a sh*t about the AP2 owners left in the lurch - except the forgotten AP2 owners. History marches on - get over it.
I give a sh*t about the money I gave Tesla. And they will too when they have to pay outside counsel to show up in my city and litigate the suit I file. If for some reason I don’t prevail, they will have spent far, far more in legal fees than they took from me.
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