Help me decide: Model Y or Mach-E

[pepperoni]

Gonna go out on a limb here - I bet the Tesla forum mostly recommends the MY, and the Mach-E forum mostly recommends the ME?

That’s a pretty sturdy limb, because I can tell you it’s true. As a stated in my first post, I cross-posted exactly the same question in the Mach-E forum, and big surprise… have been getting just as many MME recommendations there as MY over here. I admit though, I have been surprised how willing people are to admit concessions. There is an admiration on this forum that the Ford is a real competitor (even if it is an upstart in EVs). And the Ford folks are willing to admit that Tesla is miles ahead with its software integration and the advantage of the Supercharger network. But in the end, I am talking to people who sunk a lot of money into either a MY or a MME, and at that point it is hard for anyone to admit they made a bad decision. The ones I really like hearing from are those who have one of each. There are a few out there.

 

[pepperoni]

Good advice from the gang.

I'm biased - we've bought two Model 3s and recently a Model Y. Love them all! For all the reasons folks here have pointed out as being Tesla advantages, I never even considered the ME when we decided to buy an E-CUV.

But I'll add one more point to consider that I didn't see mentioned yet. Are the prices you indicated real world? With Tesla, the amount quoted is the amount you (and all others who ordered at the same time) will pay. Not a dollar more and not a dollar less. I don't have personal experience, but my understanding is Ford dealers are charging $5K, $10K, I even saw a $20K 'market markup'. One of so many reasons I hate dealing with dealers. Would The ME costing $5-10K more be a deciding factor?

Yup, the Ford dealers are marking up their product. My local dealer had several Mach-Es on the lot when I test drove, and they were marked up $10K above MSRP. I understand they sell pretty quickly too. Purchases are made online, just like Tesla. However, unlike Tesla, you must then send your order to a dealer who can then add a markup before “accepting” the order. The secret is to contact the dealer first and find out if they add a markup to online orders. Mine does not, and I got that in writing. Oh, and the dealers can decide what down payment they want. Mine was $500, but it is refundable. Unlike Tesla.

 

[voxel]

Yup, the Ford dealers are marking up their product. My local dealer had several Mach-Es on the lot when I test drove, and they were marked up $10K above MSRP. I understand they sell pretty quickly too. Purchases are made online, just like Tesla. However, unlike Tesla, you must then send your order to a dealer who can then add a markup before “accepting” the order. The secret is to contact the dealer first and find out if they add a markup to online orders. Mine does not, and I got that in writing. Oh, and the dealers can decide what down payment they want. Mine was $500, but it is refundable. Unlike Tesla.

While it's just a $500 deposit to start the process (this is can be non-refundable if the dealer chooses to - read the fine print) ... you still have to pay the dealer fees and whatever prep fees that dealership has. The order is WITH the dealer and not through Ford due to legal reasons (it is not a direct sale to the customer). So while the dealer has agreed to no ADM (markup) the dealer can tack on doc fees, dealer fees, prep fees, add-ons, etc. when you take delivery.

 

[pepperoni]

While it's just a $500 deposit to start the process (this is can be non-refundable if the dealer chooses to - read the fine print) ... you still have to pay the dealer fees and whatever prep fees that dealership has. The order is WITH the dealer and not through Ford due to legal reasons (it is not a direct sale to the customer). So while the dealer has agreed to no ADM (markup) the dealer can tack on doc fees, dealer fees, prep fees, add-ons, etc. when you take delivery.

This is why I got it ALL in writing from Ford. Doc fees are $85 from this dealer, and no extra fees beyond the usual destination fee and taxes/registration. And $500 is refundable, in WRITING. I really don’t trust dealers, from experience. I really do appreciate the Tesla model for buying cars. The price is the price is the price, and I don’t have to go through some middle man working on commission.

 

[voxel]

This is why I got it ALL in writing from Ford. Doc fees are $85 from this dealer, and no extra fees beyond the usual destination fee and taxes/registration. And $500 is refundable, in WRITING. I really don’t trust dealers, from experience. I really do appreciate the Tesla model for buying cars. The price is the price is the price, and I don’t have to go through some middle man working on commission.

You covered all the bases. While I might be slightly negative about Ford dealers, they are 1000000x better than Toyota dealers. Toyota dealers can't custom order cars but still ask for a $500 deposit to find a "similar" vehicle and none of them gave me a detailed out the door price in writing/e-mail because they all tack on an ADM at the very end when you speak to the finance person. So scummy. They've created a bureaucracy to extract extra money from you.

 

[thesmokingman]

Purchases are made online, just like Tesla. However, unlike Tesla, you must then send your order to a dealer who can then add a markup before “accepting” the order.

It's nothing like Tesla. You are not dealing with FORD, you are dealing with a dealership. It may look like you're ordering online but that's as far as it goes. Tesla is the only automaker that sells direct to the consumer. The reason you have to get anything in writing is because your are dealing with a middle man.

 

[drtimhill]

Yup, the Ford dealers are marking up their product. My local dealer had several Mach-Es on the lot when I test drove, and they were marked up $10K above MSRP. I understand they sell pretty quickly too. Purchases are made online, just like Tesla. However, unlike Tesla, you must then send your order to a dealer who can then add a markup before “accepting” the order. The secret is to contact the dealer first and find out if they add a markup to online orders. Mine does not, and I got that in writing. Oh, and the dealers can decide what down payment they want. Mine was $500, but it is refundable. Unlike Tesla.

Interesting, thanks for the info. I also wonder how well Ford are training the dealers for service/maintenance? One issue for Ford, I suspect, will be adjusting the dealer network to cope with the different service model, since EVs do not require the (lucrative) regular maintenance trips to the dealer. (My M3 has had a grand total of ONE service visit in 2.5 years, and that was to change out the 12V battery at my request last month .. I'm assuming the Mach-E is similarly maintenance free.)

 

[pepperoni]

Interesting, thanks for the info. I also wonder how well Ford are training the dealers for service/maintenance? One issue for Ford, I suspect, will be adjusting the dealer network to cope with the different service model, since EVs do not require the (lucrative) regular maintenance trips to the dealer. (My M3 has had a grand total of ONE service visit in 2.5 years, and that was to change out the 12V battery at my request last month .. I'm assuming the Mach-E is similarly maintenance free.)

I’ve heard many stories of recent Tesla owners going years between trips to the mechanic. True? I have been conditioned to fear the mysterious check engine light, which usually means one or two thousand dollars soon to be removed from my bank account. What sort of reliability can I expect over, say, 100K? And what does the typical stop to the mechanic cost? I would expect more than a typical car, but I’ve been wrong before. I also need to look into the same thing for the Mach-E, though they haven’t been out on the streets as long. Even if the electric motors and batteries are more reliable, the odd electrical problem can still be pricey.

 

[thesmokingman]

I’ve heard many stories of recent Tesla owners going years between trips to the mechanic. True? I have been conditioned to fear the mysterious check engine light, which usually means one or two thousand dollars soon to be removed from my bank account. What sort of reliability can I expect over, say, 100K? And what does the typical stop to the mechanic cost? I would expect more than a typical car, but I’ve been wrong before. I also need to look into the same thing for the Mach-E, though they haven’t been out on the streets as long. Even if the electric motors and batteries are more reliable, the odd electrical problem can still be pricey.

What's a mechanic going to do? Hehe, jk. There's literally nothing for a mechanic to do. Typical maintenance or types of things to maintain would be brakes every couple of years. Brakes rarely get used so you should actually use them every now and then to keep them from getting stiff from months of non-use. Hmm... washing it? New tires every couple of years...? Most everything else falls under warranty and iirc its got a pretty long drivetrain warranty.

 

[pepperoni]

What's a mechanic going to do? Hehe, jk. There's literally nothing for a mechanic to do. Typical maintenance or types of things to maintain would be brakes every couple of years. Brakes rarely get used so you should actually use them every now and then to keep them from getting stiff from months of non-use. Hmm... washing it? New tires every couple of years...? Most everything else falls under warranty and iirc its got a pretty long drivetrain warranty.

I’m not talking about routine maintenance, but unexpected part failure. I had a Jetta that I had to take to the mechanic every thousand miles. Literally. Many were for weird electrical failures that had nothing to do with the drive train. The brake light switch (under the brake pedal) must have failed a half dozen times. I eventually learned how to replace it myself. It was a lemon and I eventually dumped the car. Even without an ICE, a Tesla is a fairly complex machine with hundreds of parts that could fail if not properly designed. I am encouraged to hear that trips to the mechanic are not as frequent.

 

[FFR6288]

Here's a thing I haven't seen mentioned - Tesla mobile service. For many problems, they will send a mobile service unit to your location, rather than requiring you to go to a service center. Very convenient! I don't believe Ford has anything like that.

 

[alexgr]

I’m not talking about routine maintenance, but unexpected part failure. I had a Jetta that I had to take to the mechanic every thousand miles. Literally. Many were for weird electrical failures that had nothing to do with the drive train. The brake light switch (under the brake pedal) must have failed a half dozen times. I eventually learned how to replace it myself. It was a lemon and I eventually dumped the car. Even without an ICE, a Tesla is a fairly complex machine with hundreds of parts that could fail if not properly designed. I am encouraged to hear that trips to the mechanic are not as frequent.

Most Model 3s are in customer hands for less than 4 years. The basic warranty is 4y/50k (I think it is 3/36 for Ford). I don't think the group of M3 with over 100k miles is a statistically representative one. Likely, most Model 3s are under 50k and within warranty.
The battery and drive unit warranty is 8y/120k (on Long Range model, and 100k on Standard Range).

1) you are pretty much covered for years for anything related to defects.
2) if you break something and you need service, Tesla has plenty of service locations now + Mobile service. ALL appointments, and a lovely discussion of the proposed work and charges are done through your Tesla phone app. Kinda unusual, but puts everybody on record. Based on reading this and other forums and very limited interaction with Tesla service, I believe the prices are approaching BMW and MB, but not there yet.
3) Reliability. In 2+ years I visited Tesla service center once to replace a faulty seat sensor connector under warranty. All work was done in about an hour or so. My feeling is that Tesla has minimized by now the probability of giving birth to lemons. Long term reliability of Model S seems to be way better than the reliability of ICE cars (watch Bjorn, for example), if that is any predictor of Model 3 reliability.

 

[Kandiru]

Here's a thing I haven't seen mentioned - Tesla mobile service. For many problems, they will send a mobile service unit to your location, rather than requiring you to go to a service center. Very convenient! I don't believe Ford has anything like that.

I live 100mi from SC, so far rangers have traveled to my workplace parking lot x3 in my 6 years of ownership, what a blessing. They send a text when they open the car and then start working, then another one when finished. Once when steering joint broke they brought another Tesla to my work and took mine.

Tip: The "open Sesame" phrase for the app bot is "request mobile service" in the text, otherwise the ranger option does not come up on the next page.

 

[DanDi58]

I’m not talking about routine maintenance, but unexpected part failure. I had a Jetta that I had to take to the mechanic every thousand miles. Literally. Many were for weird electrical failures that had nothing to do with the drive train. The brake light switch (under the brake pedal) must have failed a half dozen times. I eventually learned how to replace it myself. It was a lemon and I eventually dumped the car. Even without an ICE, a Tesla is a fairly complex machine with hundreds of parts that could fail if not properly designed. I am encouraged to hear that trips to the mechanic are not as frequent.

Well, a scan through the subjects here would give you an idea of what sorts of issues people have been having with their MY's, in terms of teething issues with a new vehicle. Same for the MME. Just keep in mind that people generally only post when they have an issue, not when everything is great. A perfect example is a thread on here about 'Ear Pain' that is probably closing in on 100 pages, but was only experienced by maybe 10 folks...

 

[WattsHappening]

We've owned a LR RWD M3 since April 2018. A stealth performance M3 since September 2018. And just took delivery of MY earlier this month.

One trip for service to replace an A/C module in the RWD M3. And had mobile service come out to fix a broken glove compartment door. Both free of charge. That's it.

 

[drtimhill]

Here's a thing I haven't seen mentioned - Tesla mobile service. For many problems, they will send a mobile service unit to your location, rather than requiring you to go to a service center. Very convenient! I don't believe Ford has anything like that.

Yeah. the only maintenance I've had was a 12V battery change (at my request), and they came out, swapped in about 20 mins, checked tire pressure and tread wear, and left (the Tesla app took care of the paperwork and charges). Very 21st century.

Now, to be fair, the wait times for an appointment can be long, but then again some glass replacement (after a break-in) on my old Infiniti G37 took the dealer 12 days.

 

[FFR6288]

How is the MME set for cameras? I like the added security of sentry mode and full surround "dash" cam that Teslas provide. It's not necessarily a must-have, but I consider it to be a big plus.

Climate control isn't often a deciding factor either, but... Does MME have the ability to leave climate control on while you run into the store or whatever? Here in Arizona, I love that feature! No messing around with the windshield shade, and a cool car when I return. Or a warm car if in a cold area. Similarly, there is "dog mode" if you have a need to leave a pet in the car.

And here's another feature that I found useful yesterday. My daughter needed to borrow the MYP (I wasn't home), but had not been logged in to the Tesla app for a long time, so it wouldn't let her drive using her phone. No problem! I used my Tesla app remotely to unlock the car and "start" it for her. Again, not a make-or-break thing, but nice to have.

 

[iBetMy10k]

This may sound a bit harsh & bitter on legacy automakers or their wonderful practices. I am a past owner of Fords , 3 of them. I call them dearly as "Fraud Motors". I am a proud Non-fan. I have written a poem about them. Poetry is a complaint arranged in a nice way. Here is my "original" poem "

" Fraud me once, shame on Ford
Fraud me twice, shame on me
Fraud me 3 times, Call me stupid".
Even though I had Ford in my mind when i written it , it applies to all legacy manufacturers both foreign and domestic. Dog, that sentence sounds like an oath ! But I gotta tell ya, If the NOBEL organization stands on honesty and Integrity they should've given me the Nobel price for that piece of work. But unfortunately they are not about that.

The term " Stealership" was coined mainly after Ford Dealerships but it applies to all of them. I had the most fine incredible opportunity to enjoy Ford, Mercedes and FCA now called stellatis or Atlantis or something like that. Did Atlantis went down the ocean? Yeah ,they are all going down.
I made a decision 5 years ago to become car-less. My uber expense was above 600 dollars a month. People told me that their car payment is cheaper but I refused to buy ICE. I always thought the ICE cars and their whole mechanisms are one of the worst inventions of human advancement right next to washing machines ! If you ask me who contributed to my decision to become car-less, i can give you the following percentage-weighted-statistic.

Ford 51%
Mercedes 10%
FCA 30%
other factors 9%
So what is the difference between Ford stealership and Mercedes Stealership ? Mercedes will smile at you , offer you drinks and snacks while stealing from you. It is like they are looking into my eyes and whisper sweet nothings in my ears while slowly cutting my throat with a dull hacksaw. If you are into this kind of thing you wont be disappointed in choosing Mercedes. If not choose ford. They will at least knife you in the back and be done with it. You wont even know what hit you.

Me, I am still car-less. I have a Tesla.

 

[pepperoni]

We've owned a LR RWD M3 since April 2018. A stealth performance M3 since September 2018. And just took delivery of MY earlier this month.

One trip for service to replace an A/C module in the RWD M3. And had mobile service come out to fix a broken glove compartment door. Both free of charge. That's it.

The service was free of charge because your car is still under warranty. I tend to keep my cars way past warranty, so I wonder what these service appointments would cost under these circumstances. BMW prices or closer to Ford. It’s also interesting that you requested service on the glove box door, not something that is typically required. I’m really trying to understand the cost of ownership for these cars past the warranty period.

 

[Brian's ReX]

We are a Tesla bunch... with 4 cars in the group; 1 MX (me), 2 M3, 1 MS, and 1 MY. The M3's have 78K and 64K miles... the MS has 114K miles, my MX has 40K and the MY has a whopping 2K.

The only SC visit was me (unfortunately) for a broken windshield. Of course, the largest freakin' windshield and the most expensive. Other than that, one M3 and the MS got new tires. All have orig brakes! No issues. (*knocking on wood)

Cost of ownership? For us... Nil. FYI

FWIW, on a recent trip to San Diego... I ordered an Uber, and was picked up by an MS. His car had some 170K miles, and since he liked to talk about his Tesla, I asked what he's had to have serviced, and he said he's never been to an SC... but has gone through many sets of tires! I forgot to ask about brake pads...