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Help me decide: Model Y or Mach-E

dhrivnak

Active Member
Jan 8, 2011
4,514
3,932
NE Tennessee
So at what point will you throw in you rebuilt all 3 Chevy engines around 100,000 but you don't consider it maintenance because you were teaching your boys how ICE's work? And the $250 windshield was for materials so you could manufacture your own at home?... ;)

But seriously, through 68,000 miles you replaced the lower control arms and a wiring harness on your M3, looks like it cost you maybe $1000 or so. I think it's safe to say many of us came from Beemer's and such and we would consider that a bargain for 68,000 miles. I still don't see what you consider the M3 a high cost to own. I doubt that's the typical Tesla owner's opinion.
Again even at 200,000 miles 220,000 on the Avalanche and it is running well and not using any oil. Many gad engines make it past 200,000 miles. For the record I have been driving a Tesla for over 10.5 years now and have been an investor for 9 years. I am not antiTesla but I am anti FUD
 
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patmurphey

Member
Aug 26, 2020
160
208
New Jersey
I don't know all state's insurance regulations, but here in NJ, comprehensive zero deductible insurance is cheap. I've done 3 expensive deer repairs and at least a dozen windshields at no cost over the years other than carrying the insurance.
 

robo45h

Member
Sep 4, 2015
11
9
Phoenixville, PA
I raised this point to my Ford salesman, and he pulled a Tesla supercharger adapter for the Mach-E from his desk and stated that it could be used at Tesla superchargers. I haven't done any research to see if this was true. At any rate, 99% of my charging will be in my own garage, so the supercharger network isn't really going to be the deciding factor for me.
There's a good reason not to buy from a traditional car manufacturer: Sleazy dealers rather than direct Tesla sales. That Ford salesman was outright lying to you. That adapter presently only is usable on AC Level 2 Tesla "destination chargers" (found at places like hotels and restaurants). They presently cannot be used at Superchargers. Tesla has said they are going to start letting non-Teslas charge at Superchargers -- but first in Europe where Tesla vehicles come with the same standard CCS connector as other EVs.
 

Dennisis

Member
Supporting Member
Feb 11, 2020
744
694
Tucson
Again even at 200,000 miles 220,000 on the Avalanche and it is running well and not using any oil. Many gad engines make it past 200,000 miles. For the record I have been driving a Tesla for over 10.5 years now and have been an investor for 9 years. I am not antiTesla but I am anti FUD
I appreciate that (once I looked up “FUD”) and didn’t think you were anti-Tesla based on how long you’ve been around but based on the information you’ve provided I don’t believe your experiences, both with your Chevy’s and Tesla’s, are typical. And I suspect you’ve downplayed your actual maintenance costs. No brakes? Exhaust systems? Just oil changes for over 200K miles? But back to your comment re the Mach-e, why would you expect the cost of ownership would be lower? First year new tech endeavor for Ford? I’m sure it will be higher at least for a while.
 

pt19713

Active Member
Feb 5, 2020
1,018
1,338
Delaware
No the cracked windshield was an example of how much more it is to repair a Tesla over a Chevy. I also has to replace the front control arms and a seat wiring harness on my Model 3. Neither my Prizm, Avalanche or our Prius required any significant repairs in the first 100,000 miles. My sons now drive the Prizm and Avalanche now both over 200,000 without major repairs.
I have State Farm zero deductible on comprehensive. It costs an extra $11 each year on each vehicle. Well worth it and something you should look into with your history of objects hitting you.
 

mrwug

Member
Jul 30, 2021
335
224
Colorado
I think it's safe to say many of us came from Beemer's and such and we would consider that a bargain for 68,000 miles.
Tell me about it! I'm into my X1 for close to four grand in repairs this year and I'm a week or so away from 70K miles. Can't wait to trade it in on the MY!
 
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WADan

Member
Sep 28, 2020
356
388
Bellevue WA
The windshield is not maintenance but the cost at 4x the Volt goes against low cost of ownership. The person was saying the Mach-E is likely more expensive to maintain and I would doubt that.
Just wait until those miles and miles of hoses start to leak (if you miss the hoses, go look for Munro’s review of the Mach-E).
 
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mrwug

Member
Jul 30, 2021
335
224
Colorado
Just wait until those miles and miles of hoses start to leak (if you miss the hoses, go look for Munro’s review of the Mach-E).
While Sandy was underwhelmed by the length of hose in the MME, I think he was downright appalled by the number and type of connectors used.
 

Corndart

Member
Oct 11, 2021
307
349
Seattle
Much of Munro's objection seemed to be around complexity, weight, and cost. His company specializes in optimization for the auto industry to reduce all of these aspects of production. Hoses and clamps are pretty cheap items to replace typically.
 

pepperoni

Member
Oct 16, 2021
128
191
California
So you’re basing your high cost of ownership comment on a cracked windshield? And lets go back to your comment about 2 “gassers” not requiring repairs of over $200 each in over 100K - that simply did not happen. Even my 15 year old Honda Fit needed a $650 fuel pump replacement and a anti lock brake module in 100K miles. I’m calling BS, didn’t happen. And if it actually somehow did (didn’t), that’s still not a basis for saying Teslas are high cost to maintain. Why would a Mach-e be less?
Repairs for my Prius and Outback, each with over 100K miles, have been exactly $0 excluding a $500 windshield replacement for the Outback. Maintenance has not been zero, but reasonable, with lots of oil changes and a few brake pad replacements. And new tires and rotations of course. The Outback recently had a $600 transmission fluid replacement which hurt, but that is the largest outlay to date. Both of my cars will need their 120K service this year which will really bite. So $0 in repair costs is possible, though I could do without the maintenance hassle.
 

WADan

Member
Sep 28, 2020
356
388
Bellevue WA
Much of Munro's objection seemed to be around complexity, weight, and cost. His company specializes in optimization for the auto industry to reduce all of these aspects of production. Hoses and clamps are pretty cheap items to replace typically.
It’s not so much about the costs of the parts, it’s about the labor and how much work to remove the components in the way to get to those hoses.
 

Dennisis

Member
Supporting Member
Feb 11, 2020
744
694
Tucson
Repairs for my Prius and Outback, each with over 100K miles, have been exactly $0 excluding a $500 windshield replacement for the Outback. Maintenance has not been zero, but reasonable, with lots of oil changes and a few brake pad replacements. And new tires and rotations of course. The Outback recently had a $600 transmission fluid replacement which hurt, but that is the largest outlay to date. Both of my cars will need their 120K service this year which will really bite. So $0 in repair costs is possible, though I could do without the maintenance hassle.
Understood, and my Honda Fit experience was similar for 100K 'til I gave it to my son - bulletproof commuter car. They're out there but not the norm for most I suspect. But yours and mine were half the milage of the vehicles he mentioned. And the repairs mentioned for the Tesla ($1k or so in 68,000?) do not equate to a high cost of ownership to include maintenance. Scheduled maintenance is much less than an ICE vehicle and most people don't do their own vehicle maintenance nowadays so they're paying someone. And his damaged windshield was extra but insurance usually covers that - modern vehicle windshields usually cost more too. In AZ it's zero deductible and USAA even covered re-tinting several for me. I just don't see the basis for expecting the Mach-e to be less expensive to maintain as presented here as deliveries are just getting underway. With Tesla's once you get past any initial delivery related issues visits to SC's are normally few and far between. Regardless, time will tell :).
I am far from throwing in the towel but in my experience Tesla's are not low maintenance.
The person was saying the Mach-E is likely more expensive to maintain and I would doubt that.
 

geekfam

Member
Nov 12, 2020
49
77
IL
Seems the MME is starting to have some battery issues, might want to check the MME forum. Three people all having the same issue in the last couple weeks. Might not be a large number, but they also have not shipped very many either.

MME battery dies
 
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pepperoni

Member
Oct 16, 2021
128
191
California
Seems the MME is starting to have some battery issues, might want to check the MME forum. Three people all having the same issue in the last couple weeks. Might not be a large number, but they also have not shipped very many either.

MME battery dies
In my research, I have definitely seen a few reports of battery issues. I have two reactions to these issues: 1) I have observed Ford take a proactive response to these issues, and believe they will resolve these issues for individual consumers and fix their design to prevent these issues in the future, and 2) am definitely concerned that as an early adopter, I would run the risk of getting stranded or without a car for a month or more while it gets fixed. The big issue as I see it for new Mach-E owners is that the Ford service centers don’t have the training (yet) to fix these issues. As a result, there are a number of reports of consumers having a car in the shop for 1-2 months. That’s definitely a problem, though one that over time should get better. How prevalent it is, I do not know. There are now tens of thousands of Mach-Es out there, and the few negative stories are going to get more attention than the many more satisfied folks who aren’t posting their bad experiences.

So I will turn it around and ask about Teslas, because this is a Tesla forum. Are there no similar stories about Tesla battery failures? Were there issues in the early years of the Model S, and if so, did things turn around over the years? I ask in all seriousness, because reliability is definitely a factor in my decision and my assumption (so far) is that the Tesla is likely to be more reliable than the Ford just because Tesla currently has more experience with EVs.
 

voxel

Bought demo MYLR on 10/18. Traded for Mach-E 11/19
Aug 24, 2021
391
312
Altamonte Springs
There are now tens of thousands of Mach-Es out there, and the few negative stories are going to get more attention than the many more satisfied folks who aren’t posting their bad experiences.

If you didn’t know, most of the Mach-E built have been sent to Europe due to some min number/percentage of EVs they need to sell due regulatory reasons.


I’d guess there might be only 20K in the US at the moment. There are 20K Model Ys produced and sold a month. I’d say there are at least 10x the number of Model Ys than Mach-Es. I’ve seen two out in the wild and I used to visit EA stations in my ID.4 where I saw e-Trons, Taycans, Bolts, i3s. Mach-E are rare and that’s the appeal of them to. Reliable? Who knows. Don’t care really… probably not. As I’ve said in the other forums, I’m buying one anyhow and trading in my Model Y then.
 

AndroidAuto

Member
Feb 4, 2021
10
12
Dealer lot
I am in a similar position. Q4 Etron also comes to mind; but deliveries might not be until January. Lucid is also interesting, but way out there with deliveries.

Tesla has some serious advantages, that as an ICE convert, I feel are a big deal. Like…
  • Infotainment mapping software - ability to effortlessly plan trips & stops with charging stations
  • Charging station experience - more reliable, “lite-touch” - plug-n-go (Out of spec motoring experience with different EV’s on different non-Tesla chargers is an eye opener to the reliability and annoying payment authorization processes. Tesla has this figured out). Tesla sets a standard with charging performance that only Porsche seem capable of hitting
  • Range. As a ICE convert, I seem to think I always need the ability to drive 600 miles in a day, if I want. The ability to charge fast, and also get 300 miles+ of range, is reassuring
Ford has some things I like. A rotary volume knob, comparable performance, dealership support network and auto body shops capable of servicing them everywhere, history of building vehicles, a frunk.

A lot of it comes down to looks. I feel the charging experience is going to create a lot of friction on road trips - unnecessary detours, slow charging & waiting in the car, staying in more expensive hotels (for their chargers). I almost want the Model S - just for the 400 miles of range. So I am placing a ton of emphasis on things that eliminate these concerns. I live in a cold climate, and can’t imagine the anxiety of driving an EV with mid-200 mile range (in warm weather…) in 2 degree temperatures with -20 degree wind chills. Throwing a ski rack on a vehicle will reduce range (trying to imagine the long weekend trips with 600 mile round trip of driving), add some family to the vehicle, luggage on the trailer hitch…

I try and be a realist. I know some of the areas won’t have significant amount of EV charging - especially fast charging. They might not be reliable. Ford (and other brands) need to improve the charging experience (reliable charging, fast charging, super easy payment and authorization). Imagine a frustrating day - you are in a rush, and now you have to deal with all the (potential) annoyances of non-Tesla charging experience? No thanks. Laggy infotainment, poor route planning software, clunky payment & authorization, unreliable chargers, can’t use Tesla chargers…other auto companies are just doing this for the first time - in a serious way.

Tesla has a decade on these guys, in every area that matters. Their build quality isn’t an issue - they could fix it if they wanted. It isn’t for the lack of knowledge or brain power. These folks at Tesla are focusing on the areas that allows Tesla to be the top EV company. This includes beating unproven brands (with great tech) like Lucid. GM makes reliable vehicles, yet they are caught up with battery issues. VW/Audi/Porsche make millions of vehicles - but the original Etrons had tons of issues, massively depreciated, had mediocre range, and mediocre driving dynamics. Tesla is the only company that really knows how to do this. Other companies make cars, not EV’s, and are trying to figure out how to build EV’s - and integrate the suppliers, retool the factories, retrain the workforce. These same companies are going to have issues - like GM. People will have bad experiences, mediocre experiences - and awesome experiences. Tesla provides the best experience an EV owner can get.

Mach-E is pretty sweet; though I wish it were made in America, especially in Michigan. But it is made in Mexico. Model Y’s are made in Fremont, California or Austin, Texas. I like what Ford is doing, but….every brand but Tesla….Lucid….Rivian…are taking half hearted approaches toward this effort. Tesla is the only game in town, delivering vehicles. This is why Tesla is worth 1 trillion dollars - more than the combined value of all other automotive companies (including Rivian and Lucid). Every employee at Tesla wakes up to work at an electric vehicle company, that has only ever existed to make electric vehicles. Every other brand is making ICE vehicles, and reading the instruction booklet on how to make EV’s - trying to copy and paste Tesla success. The other brands don’t even know how to make EV’s - many are relying on suppliers and OEM’s in ways that Tesla doesn’t (almost as if they are building a custom computer in the 90’s - everyone could source parts, and build Frankenstein computers).

It’s like…Apple…and Tesla will rule the world. These two brands just get how to to make products consumers want…and deserve.
 

thesmokingman

Member
Jun 21, 2021
845
1,708
Socal
In my research, I have definitely seen a few reports of battery issues. I have two reactions to these issues: 1) I have observed Ford take a proactive response to these issues, and believe they will resolve these issues for individual consumers and fix their design to prevent these issues in the future, and 2) am definitely concerned that as an early adopter, I would run the risk of getting stranded or without a car for a month or more while it gets fixed. The big issue as I see it for new Mach-E owners is that the Ford service centers don’t have the training (yet) to fix these issues. As a result, there are a number of reports of consumers having a car in the shop for 1-2 months. That’s definitely a problem, though one that over time should get better. How prevalent it is, I do not know. There are now tens of thousands of Mach-Es out there, and the few negative stories are going to get more attention than the many more satisfied folks who aren’t posting their bad experiences.

So I will turn it around and ask about Teslas, because this is a Tesla forum. Are there no similar stories about Tesla battery failures? Were there issues in the early years of the Model S, and if so, did things turn around over the years? I ask in all seriousness, because reliability is definitely a factor in my decision and my assumption (so far) is that the Tesla is likely to be more reliable than the Ford just because Tesla currently has more experience with EVs.
You should totally buy the Ford then? You've done all this research but don't know about Tesla's?
 
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Dennisis

Member
Supporting Member
Feb 11, 2020
744
694
Tucson
Seriously, after all this hand wringing you’re buying a car, not getting married. There’s plenty of info out there to decide and move on. If you make a bad choice you can get another one after a couple of years when there are more options out there. And here’s a thought, you’re on a Tesla forum generally frequented by people who bought or are buying Tesla’s. If you’re looking for unbiased opinions look elsewhere.
 
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FOOLSLFDRVNG

Member
Nov 3, 2020
247
223
Local💋
274D628A-9857-4873-ACF5-7873A43B9A3E.jpeg
 

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