OxBrew
Active Member
Well, they are pretty good at staging photo ops to have that stock photography vibe. Seems like they're doing just enough to continue to fleece investors.
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Help me decide: Model Y or Mach-E
- Thread starter pepperoni
- Start date
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
How is Lucid a fraud? I understand they have actually produced and delivered a limited number of cars, and it’s not like Tesla has never been late delivering a product
Tha_Ape
Active Member
What do you mean? You mean you havent gotten your CyberTruck yet? Or did you order the roadster?
The fact that this thread is 18-pages and counting shows how close the cars are. It basically comes down to if you like high tech or you want something with more of a regular car feel. The Mach-E forums have a similar thread and its very long, too.
FloridaSun
Member
thinktwice
Member
Because God forbid there's a software bug that adversely affects the experience, instead of only a small group affected everyone is affected and pissed as hell at Tesla. They can instead pull the update to debug it before it affects the masses, then roll out a revised version if needed. This approach is probably a safer method to rolling out updates.
OxBrew
Active Member
Because they have "produced" (hand built, essentially) 520 cars total, and they have a market cap of 70+B. From all the press and internal photos of the production lines, they are essentially mock ups. Real stuff, but not set up for actual production.
Plus, an ex colleague of mine spent a week and a half there as an engineer and quit on the spot. Not a serious company, no idea what the hell they're doing.
My take is it's all a stage set.
I've worked at a variety of start ups, in prototyping and engineering. I've seen everything from outright fraud to serious hard working earnest companies, trying hard and getting it done. After 28 years, you learn the language of smoke and mirrors. Lucid is on the edge. Their best outcome is to get hoovered up by GM or Fiat, simply for their battery supply contract capacity, if they really have any.
But I'm just this guy, you know? You read it on the internet, so it must be true.
FloridaSun
Member
Wow, wasn't aware of that.. I was just looking at their technology and it seems impressive. Tesla was always the leader of efficiency but the LUCID cars appear to be at least as efficient as Teslas.. Lots of engineering goes into that. I'm not sure if Tesla was ready for high volume production when the first Model S were produced.. I do hope that LUCID will be able to mass produce their cars. They seem to have good engineers..
thesmokingman
Active Member
Well, Lucid has been founded 14 years ago in 2007, before Tesla delivered their first car. I'm sure they had some time to think about production. Lucid is in a big ideological trouble. On one side, they want to make fast cars, but they fail to Tesla and possibly to Porsche. On the other side they want to make a very efficient luxury car, but Mercedes seems to be moving in that segment really strong now. So their sales potential is very limited, well below Tesla Model S in 2013/14. Of course they will sell a few cars to millionaires who want to appear cool and different. But where and how they will go from there is unclear to me. Also, their software is not good at this point according to the reports I saw.
Here is an example even an established player like VW is having a hard time catching up:
Reading this article, my first impression was that VW is likely making a mistake because Tesla has managed somehow to retrofit the Toyota's old plant. But then I thought of the unions, and then I found my guess was correct. However, wouldn't the almighty German unions fight the new plant order? What will VW do with the old plant? Will it eventually close it and lay off all the workers? Wouldn't it be better to do it now? Also, building a new plant will take VW no less than until middle-late 2023, and the production will be at capacity by 2024-2025 ... in one new VW plant ... the only VW plant dedicated for EVs ... the only VW plant left by 2025? I am scared for the future of the auto industry.Here is an example even an established player like VW is having a hard time catching up:
I wonder if the dinosaur VW has the nerve to build a new plant quickly like Tesla did in the face of hideous permitting and environmental rules. Tesla built their Giga-Berlin plant on spec with temporary permits for each phase. They have been delayed to some extent by environmentalists that care more about lizards than the benefits of EVs. Tesla has gambled that they will ultimately get that final permit, but they have had to post a bond large enough to pay for dismantling everything built to date and restoring the property to its original condition. VW is more likely to suffer the typical German delays that led to over 6 years to build a Berlin airport. That's probably the reason they want to just modify the Wolfsburg plant. I too despair for the OEMs.
Ford is off to a start with the attractive Mach E, but they need to improve the battery's weight, efficiency and management, plus make major moves in software and production volume. For the foreseeable future the Model Y remains the best option no matter ones aesthetic views. Relative cost for now, remains in the hands of Congress and greedy dealers.
The Q4 is much more attractive, but its tech and underpinnings are VW id4. Priced out at Prestige trim to match Model Y standard equipment, its out the door price sans credits is about the same.
My wife would love it, the tech and performance don't matter to her, and it reminds her of, and is similar to our recently sold very delightful Q3.
My wife would love it, the tech and performance don't matter to her, and it reminds her of, and is similar to our recently sold very delightful Q3.
The Mach-E doesn’t have a trunk, but it does have a rear cargo area. And this one is important to me, since I will be using it a lot to transport my bike, keyboard, and other large items. Tesla claims a larger cargo volume than the Mach-E (76 ft^3 vs 68 ft^3). However, I find the width and height of the back hatch are often the most important parameters for fitting in large items.
Here are a few measurements.
| Mach-E | Model Y | |
| Opening width | 43” | 39” |
| Width at narrowest point | 41” | 37” |
| Opening height | 30” | 27” |
| Depth (seats down) | 69” | 79” |
If I look at these numbers, it sure appears that I can slide wider and taller items into the Mach-E. The Tesla seems to have the advantage with depth. I did cross-check these numbers from several sources on the web, though have not personally measured both. It would be interesting to find out from an owner of both which turns out to be more practical.
Here are a few places I found info. For the Mach-E, this photo:
And for the Model Y, this video:
roblab
Active Member
And Tesla was founded in 2003, years and years before Lucid delivered their first car. Tesla has at least proved itself, has millions of cars on the road, and their stock is doing amazingly well. They also sell thousands of battery systems and have the best charging network anywhere. Lucid who?
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